Dying Polish culture

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Dying Polish culture
Post by wwk on Aug 24, 2006, 1:48pm

Hey all I wanted move thread about old Polish city who after WW2 was incorporating to Soviet Union.

I will begin from most important cities which is Lwów. Most of information are from wikipedia

PLEASE BE PATIENT, NUMEROUS GRAPHICS

Lwów/Lemberg/Lviv

History

Early history

Mieszko is thought to have controlled the area from 960 to 980. According to Nestor's chronicle, in 981 this area was conquered by Volodymyr the Great, ruler of Kievan Rus.
In 1018 it returned to Poland, 1031 back to Rus. In 1340 Casimir III of Poland recovered it.
However, the city itself was founded in 1256 by King Danylo of the Ruthenian duchy of Halych-Volhynia, and named in honor of his son, Lev
In 1323, the Romanovich dynasty (local branch of the Rurik Dynasty) died out. The city was inherited by the heir of the Romanovich dynasty (on his mother's side)—Boleslaus of Masovia (also from the Piast dynasty on his father's side).
After his death in 1340, the rights to Grody Czerwieńskie were claimed by his cousin Casimir III of Poland, who successfully invaded the duchy and occupied it by 1349
1351- 1353 fights with Lithuanian prince Lubartem for Grody Czerwieńskie done twice combustion of Lvov.
In 1356 Casimir granted the city with Magdeburg(other Polish city with Magdeburg law for example Sandomierz, Kraków, Poznań) rights which implied that all city issues were to be solved by a city council, elected by the wealthy citizens.
In the 17th century Lwów was besieged unsuccessfully several times. Constant struggles against invading armies gave it the motto Semper fidelis(In 1658 by Pope Alexander VII in recognition of the city's key role in defending Europe from Muslim invasion applied Semper fidelis ( Ever Faithful to Poland).
In 1649, the city was besieged by the Cossacks under Bohdan Chmielnicki(Ukrainian national hero), who seized and destroyed the local castle. However, the Cossacks did not retain the city and withdrew, satisfying themselves with a huge ransom. In 1655 the Swedish armies invaded Poland and soon took most of it. Eventually the Polish king Jan II Kazimierz solemnly pronounced his vow to consecrate the country to the protection of the Mother of God and proclaimed Her the Patron and Queen of the lands in his kingdom at Lwów Latin Cathedral in 1656.

The Swedes laid siege to Lwów, but were forced to retreat before capturing it. The following year saw Lwów invaded by the armies of the Transylvanian Duke George I Rákóczi, but the city was not captured.

In 1672 Lwów was again besieged by the Turkish army of Mehmed IV, however the Treaty of Buczacz ended the war before the city was taken. In 1675 the city was attacked by the Ottomans and the Tatars, but king John III Sobieski defeated them on August 24 in what is called the Battle of Lwów. In 1704, during the Great Northern War, the city was captured and pillaged for the first time in its history by the armies of Charles XII of Sweden.
In 1772, following the First Partition of Poland, the city, thenceforth known as "Lemberg", became the capital of the Austrian Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria
Wojciech Bogusławski opened the first public theatre in 1794 and Józef Maksymilian Ossolinski founded in 1817 the Ossolineum, a scientifical institute.
During World War I the city was captured by the Russian army in September 1914, but was retaken the following year (in June) by Austria-Hungary. With the collapse of the Habsburg Empire at the end of World War I, the local Ukrainian population proclaimed Lviv as the capital of the Western Ukrainian Republic on November 1, 1918.
The withdrawing Austro-Hungarian and German armies agreed to hand over the city to Ukrainian authorities, hoping to keep the city out of Warsaw's control. However, the same day the overwhelming Polish population of Lviv started an armed uprising and soon took control over most of the city centre; unable to break into the central areas, Ukrainian forces besieged the city, defended by Polish irregular forces including the Lwów Eaglets(childrens). After the Inter-Allied Commission in Paris agreed to leave the city under Polish administration until its future was resolved by a post-war treaty or a referendum, the regular Polish forces reached the city on November 19. However, the heavy fights in the city's vicinity, with several minor cease-fire periods, did not end until July 1919. Both Polish and Ukrainian victims of this conflict are buried at the Lyczakowski Cemetery. Ashes of one of the unknown soldiers killed in the fighting are buried in the Unknown Soldier Monument in Warsaw.

During the Polish-Soviet War of 1920 the city was attacked by the forces of Aleksandr Yegorov. Since mid-June 1920 the 1st Cavalry Army of Semyon Budyonny was trying to reach the city from the north and east. At the same time Lwów was preparing the defence. The inhabitants raised and fully equipped three regiments of infantry and two regiments of cavalry as well as constructed defensive lines. The city was defended by an equivalent of three Polish divisions aided by one Ukrainian infantry division. Finally after almost a month of heavy fighting on August 16 the Red Army crossed the Bug river and, reinforced by additional 8 divisions of the so called Red Cossacks, started an assault on the city. The fighting occurred with heavy casualties on both sides, but after three days the assault was halted and the Red Army retreated. For the heroic defence the city was awarded with the Virtuti Militari medal. (highest military decoration for valor in the face of the enemy. First and last city who received this honour).

Population of Lwow up to WW2
Poles 198.200
Jews 75.300
Ruthenians & Ukrainians 35.100
Russians 500
Germans 2.500
Other 600

World War II
Nazi Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939 and the German 1st Mountain Division reached the suburbs of Lwów on September 12 and began a siege. The city's garrison was ordered to hold out at all cost since the strategic position prevented the enemy from crossing into the Romanian Bridgehead. Also, a number of Polish troops from Central Poland were trying to reach the city and organise a defence there to buy time to regroup. Thus a 10 day long defence of the city started and later became known as yet another Battle of Lwów. On September 19 a Polish diversionary attack under General Władysław Langner was launched- unsuccessfully. Soviet troops (part of the forces which had invaded on September 17 under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact) replaced the Germans around the city. On the 23rd Langner formally surrendered to Soviet troops under Marshal Semyon Timoshenko.
The Soviet and Nazi forces divided Poland between themselves and a rigged plebiscite absorbed the Soviet half of Poland, including Lwów, into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Initially, a large part of the Ukrainian population who lived in the interwar Poland cheered the Soviet takeover whose stated goal was to protect the Ukrainian population in the area. Depolonisation combined with large scale anti-Polish actions began immediately, with huge numbers of Poles from Lviv deported eastward into the Soviet Union. Some members of the Ukrainian and Jewish communities were deported as well
When the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, the NKVD spent a week hastily executing prisoners held in the Brygidki and Zamarstynów prisons, where around 8000 were murdered.
Since the beginning of the German occupation of the city, the situation of the city's inhabitants became tragic. After being subject to deadly pogroms, the Jewish inhabitants of the area were rushed into a newly-created ghetto and then mostly sent to various German concentration camps. The Polish and smaller Ukrainian populations of the city were also subject to harsh policies, which resulted in a number of mass executions both in the city and in the Janów camp. Among the first to be murdered were the professors of the city's universities and other members of Polish intelligentsia. Initially, a great part of Ukrainian population considered the German troops as liberators after the two years of Soviet regime, as once many Jewish and Ukrainian inhabitants had welcomed the Soviets as their liberators from the rule of the nationalist Second Polish Republic. Germans were associated with old Austrian times, the happiest ones in comparison to the later Polish and Soviet periods. On June 30, 1941, the first day of the German occupation of the city, one of the wings of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) declared restoration of the independent Ukrainian state. In a few days, the initiators of this action, Stepan Bandera, Yaroslav Stetsko and others, were arrested by Nazi Einsatzgruppe and sent to Nazi concentration camps, where both of Bandera's brothers were executed. The policy of the occupying power turned quickly harsh towards Ukrainians as well, the Ukrainian nationalists were driven underground; from that time forward, they fought against the Nazis, but continued also to fight against Poles and Soviet forces. As the Red Army was nearing the city in 1944, on July 21 the local leadership of the Polish resistance Home Army(AK) ordered all Polish forces to rise in an armed uprising After four days of the city fights and the advance of the Red Army in the final phase of the Lvov-Sandomierz Operation the city was returned to the Soviet Union .As in the previous takeover the Soviet authorities quickly turned hostile to the city's Poles (including the members of the Polish anti-fascist resistance).
After 1945, most of the Polish population of the area east of the new Soviet-Polish border fled or was expelled to Poland

for more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzon_line

After the WW2 Several words from me

Today in Lviv we can see how Ukrainians covert this city to be more Ukrainian. I call this Ukrainization.
Most of Roman Catholics(Polish) are converted to Orthodox churches. Did you see such for example orthodox churches ?

It is typical Polish architecture of Churches.

One of most older Polish University founded by John Casimir 1661(first are Jagiellonian University from 1364) today belongs to Ukraine, and in the supplement he is older than Warsaw University !!!!
Another aspect is removing old signs = Ukrainian complexes
Here check for example such photos
Here you can see 2 winged hussar. When you first see it everything is ok (Painting and renovation).

Now check this photo and look on shield. Comment is superfluous. Lack of respect for history.

Here another picture where eagle are missing

Soon that Coat of Arms of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth here from Roman Catholics church converted to Orthodox Church will be lost

Interested what yet will remove maybe pre-war walls ?

They even Ukrainization polish Lyczakowski cementary after war.
Btw when you wanted cross Lyczakowski cementary you must pay to person who stands close by entries !!!!!
Not much about 3 Hryvna for renovation of sculptures. But why they only renovated Ukrainians new graves…………
I added several photo from Polish graves.

Here presents some which disturbed time

Old Polish Monuments in city today are exist - Mickiewicz, Kiliński, Głowacki. They only alive because there are some(about 20.000 people who feel Poles ) and building who have busts

Here you can see polish national uniform

all what left from Sobieski and of course his royal tenement

Busts on tenements(Rej, Fredno, Mickiewicz, Kochanowski). Dirty but still exist

backing to cementary I must someting add to cmentarz oląt lwowskiej(Lwów Eaglets)

The graves were destroyed by Soviet Union (in 1971) and the Cemetery of the Defenders of Lwów turned into a municipal waste dump and after into truck depot.

Here old picture from 1939

Here from 1971 destroy by Russian >:(

1997 Year

Today. It was rebuilt by Poles, Polish-American and gaverment, But columns we can not rebuild because Ukrainan don't permit

To end with first part I add guess who

enjoy

"Nie mogę się jeszcze przyzwyczaić
Do obrazków które z kina znam
W głowie gdzieś nie mogę się przestawić
Że to jest już całkiem inny kraj
Że to jest już całkiem inny kraj" zespół Perfect

Informations from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv
http://www.moje.friko.pl/
http://www.lwow.com.pl/

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by psvranes on Aug 26, 2006, 6:29am

I would support all possible negations (even about borders) between Russia and Poland which will help that these two Slavic powers consolidate their relations.

It is sad that because `opened questions from past` Slavic (in this particular case- Polish) cultural heritage suffer.

Germany profits much because of misunderstandings between Russia and Poland and, Slavic South could be lost for future Slavic generations.

Serbia and Serbs could be saved only with coordinate efforts between Poland and Russia.

Support us brothers so, that we can support you in time of your need.

Glory to Slavic Union!

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by psvranes on Aug 28, 2006, 2:13pm

Quote:

Quote:

I would support all possible negations (even about borders) between Russia and Poland which will help that these two Slavic powers consolidate their relations.

It is sad that because `opened questions from past` Slavic (in this particular case- Polish) cultural heritage suffer.

Germany profits much because of misunderstandings between Russia and Poland and, Slavic South could be lost for future Slavic generations.

Serbia and Serbs could be saved only with coordinate efforts between Poland and Russia.

Support us brothers so, that we can support you in time of your need.

Glory to Slavic Union!

This has nothing to do with Russia. More at fault in this matter of Lwow, are the Austrians and Ukrainians. The Austrians for supporting the Ukrainian ethnicity as a way to provide for the weakening of the Polish historical claims and power over this region and the Ukrainians for accepting this evil brotherly hatred.

Yes, yes it’s about Ukraine. Right.

But, all what I said for Russian-Polish relations stay actual and, goes for Ukraine, too.

Ukraine is also huge Slavic country/potentially big power and Ukraina should be aware of her responsibilities in global Slavic mission/interests.

In case with Austria, I would suggests united Slavic protest note and then, if they don`t respond correctlly- economic sanction, as FIRST step in their punishment.

Austria is proofed Slavic enemy. For them, Slavs are just sub-people.

In fact, they are sub-people and we- Slavs need to learn them to respect us.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by proudslav on Aug 28, 2006, 6:04pm

Ukraina and Imperial Russia have done a lot of demage to Poland in not so distant History, I understand that frustration still exists among some polish people, but the fact of the matter is....this, I woulnd't call it hate but "distrust" btween poland and it's eastern slavic brothers is just another wepon to use in division and ultumate destruction of our "Slavic ties" fuel is being provided for this "distrust" by western media and their idealogical goals, and make no mistake Poland is under western wing (right now) but they will not be succsesful,as Poland and polish people know deep in their hearts that, "maybe a brother was not so brotherly to us, but the enemy of my brother will never truly be my friend!"

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by psvranes on Aug 28, 2006, 8:45pm

"maybe a brother was not so brotherly to us, but the enemy of my brother will never truly be my friend!"

Those were wise words- so simple and so correct.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by cossack on Aug 31, 2006, 6:11pm

Lviv is Ukrainian...get used to it. The vast majority of the population of Galicia is and always has been Ukrainian. You can't claim an entire region just because of one city. At the very best, you should ask for autonomy and greater cultural ties with Lviv, but geo-politically Lviv is within Ukrainian territory.

If Im not mistaken in seeing a similarity between the Polish attitude towards Lviv and Galicia to what the Germans did to the Poles, Czechs, and other Slavs - that is claim and entire region because they were the major ethnicity in urban areas?

And dont give me this BS about the Austrians inventing the Ukrainians. Ironically the Russians often like to blame the Polish for inventing the Ukrainians.

Even among Polish intellectual circles there was an acknowledgement that at least the Ruthenians represented a sub-culture of the greater Polish nation(the Polish counter-part to the "Little Russian" idea towards Eastern Ukrainians) that should deserve autonomy and rights to its own distinct culture(not to mention Byzantine Catholic faith).

Either way, Ukrainians are a legitimate nation.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by martin on Aug 31, 2006, 9:43pm

Being a Polish man myself I feel compelled to respond to this post.

Polish historical influence of L'vov, Lviv or whatever name you wish to call it was certainly great. But Polish time has past their and now its time for the Ukrainians to define their city under their terms.

The second issue I have with this article is that you seem to be only one-sided in your views regarding the issue of historical remembrance. Their is also plenty of great Ukrainian and orthodox Christian land marks in what is today Eastern Poland that are falling apart due to neglect.

finally lets not forget that many "Old German" cities can be found in Western Poland. Does this mean that Germans can lay claim to them? According to your argument it would.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by cossack on Sept 1, 2006, 12:36pm

Well said martin.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by wwk on Sept 1, 2006, 3:31pm

Eh Guys I did not write that whole Ukraine Galicia today should be Polish.
I assembled informations of dying Polish culture.

Quote:

The vast majority of the population of Galicia is and always has been Ukrainian. You can't claim an entire region just because of one city.

Where I claim entire region ? I talk about 1 city. Even don't mentioned województwo lwowskie(mosty people were Roman Catholics before WW2 ).
I even don't talk about Ukrainian Galicia (Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast, Ternopil Oblast, Chernivtsi Oblast).

Quote:

Ironically the Russians often like to blame the Polish for inventing the Ukrainians.

For sure Poland don't invent nation such like Ukraine. Of course someone can said that first, Poles place Ukraine on map in 1613 and called it Volynia ulterior que tum Ukraine tum Nis ab aliss vocitatur(Wołyn Dolny, który nazywają Ukrainą lub Niżem), but we never create nation...

Quote:

Even among Polish intellectual circles there was an acknowledgement that at least the Ruthenians represented a sub-culture of the greater Polish nation(the Polish counter-part to the "Little Russian" idea towards Eastern Ukrainians) that should deserve autonomy and rights to its own distinct culture(not to mention Byzantine Catholic faith).

Yep it is true but what this has to Lvov?
Autonomy did not embrace Lvov in this plans (szlacheckie miasta or królewskie miasta)

Quote:

Being a Polish man myself I feel compelled to respond to this post.

Polish historical influence of L'vov, Lviv or whatever name you wish to call it was certainly great. But Polish time has past their and now its time for the Ukrainians to define their city under their terms

.

If the Polish time past why they only show polish culture in the city for example in Potocki palace painting of (Kossak family, Brandt, Grottger,Matejko, Orlowski, Sztyka) ?
If it is really Ukrainian city why they don't give our culture to Poland ?
Let give back souvenirs of Leszczynski, Sobieski(kings of Poland) our president Ignacy Mościcki, uniforms of polish generals (Abraham, Maczek from WW1 and Polish- Russian war). Notes of Mikolaj Rej(father of Polish literature), document from first Polish National Ossoliński Institute, goods of Czarniecki, Koniecpolski, Żólkiewski, what about Lukasiewicz (father of oil refinery)

This has to stay there only because this people was not born in today Poland ?

Quote:

The second issue I have with this article is that you seem to be only one-sided in your views regarding the issue of historical remembrance. Their is also plenty of great Ukrainian and orthodox Christian land marks in what is today Eastern Poland that are falling apart due to neglect.

Pleny of Ukrainian orthodox ?
Remainders only left in Polish Galicia
Orthodox mostly are in Podlachia, but it is rather Belarusian than Ukrainian.

Quote:

finally lets not forget that many "Old German" cities can be found in Western Poland. Does this mean that Germans can lay claim to them? According to your argument it would

.

Finally lets not forget that many "Old German" cities was destroyed during world war 2 by Soviets and after war it was rebuild by Poles. Germany claim for old area. Even in constitiution they have area from 1937 and don't forget about Erika Steinbach (Federation of Expellees).

In this moment I understand Serbians why they don't wanted give Kosovo to Albans.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by lonevolk on Sept 2, 2006, 12:40am

Quote:

finally lets not forget that many "Old German" cities can be found in Western Poland. Does this mean that Germans can lay claim to them? According to your argument it would.

The krauts can't rightfully claim anything currently slavic, because all of their "lost eastern territories" were originally slavic to begin with.....if anything, the slavs can theoretically claim all land up to the Odra river.

It's a pity that East Germany (DDR) was formed at all after WWII.
I know it was not possible geopolitically, but ideally, it should have been divided between Poland and Czechoslovakia.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by psvranes on Sept 5, 2006, 6:44pm

Quote:

finally lets not forget that many "Old German" cities can be found in Western Poland. Does this mean that Germans can lay claim to them? According to your argument it would.

When I notice this sentence, I was sure that I must react.

I completely agree with Lone on this. Just, I would add- it is more then `Eastern Germany`, what was Slavic and what Slavs should rightfully split between them.

Don’t get me wrong Martin, you can say whatever you want but, I suggest that you never, NEVER- taking Germans as example in inter-Slavic relations. There are NO ``old German``. Only, old Slavic.

Germans are biggest Slavic mistake. Our weaknesses strengthen them enough.

Now, they must be crashed. There is no alternative. Crashed and re-Slavicized. Let’s say- that Slavic mission must be to liberate their Germanized population of great deal of western and central Europe.

All Slavs should support Polish expansion to the old western Slavic territories.

I hope that one day, strong Serbia can be valuable Polish partner. Same way- strong Poland can support just Serbian demands.

Re: Dying Polish culture
Post by martin on Sept 12, 2006, 5:38pm

"If the Polish time past why they only show polish culture in the city for example in Potocki palace painting of (Kossak family, Brandt, Grottger,Matejko, Orlowski, Sztyka) ?
If it is really Ukrainian city why they don't give our culture to Poland ?'

I'm not sure I really understand you correctly. If you mean that certain Polish historical treasures should be returned i would have to agree but if you mean the City should be given to Poland because it was built by Poles and there is much Polish Architecture thats absurd. Take a look at Gdansk, Pozan, Wroclaw, lots of German architecture there

"Pleny of Ukrainian orthodox ?
Remainders only left in Polish Galicia
Orthodox mostly are in Podlachia, but it is rather Belarusian than Ukrainian."

Thats why I said AND ORTHODOX. Secondly, this statement is not totally true. The Lubelski and Podkarpacie regions still have vestiges of an Orthodox past.

"Finally lets not forget that many "Old German" cities was destroyed during world war 2 by Soviets and after war it was rebuild by Poles. Germany claim for old area. Even in constitiution they have area from 1937 and don't forget about Erika Steinbach (Federation of Expellees)."

And your point is? The Soviets did not destroy all the German structures and those that were left were occupied by Poles. Secondly, recontructing a part of a city somehow gives you claim to it. Look at how much money western Europe invested in Poland after the collapse of communism, does this mean that they have a right to such a large part of Polands soveriegnty?

"In this moment I understand Serbians why they don't wanted give Kosovo to Albans."

This is a pretty insulting statement.

"The krauts can't rightfully claim anything currently slavic, because all of their "lost eastern territories" were originally slavic to begin with.....if anything, the slavs can theoretically claim all land up to the Odra river."

"When I notice this sentence, I was sure that I must react.

I completely agree with Lone on this. Just, I would add- it is more then `Eastern Germany`, what was Slavic and what Slavs should rightfully split between them.

Don’t get me wrong Martin, you can say whatever you want but, I suggest that you never, NEVER- taking Germans as example in inter-Slavic relations. There are NO ``old German``. Only, old Slavic.

Germans are biggest Slavic mistake. Our weaknesses strengthen them enough."

You both completly misunderstood what I wrote and your replies only stregthen my position. Your right those German territories were origanlly Slavic thats why Poles and Slavs can claim them but because this is true, than Ukrainians can justify their hold over Galicia and Lviv because those region were originally part of Kievan Rus while Poland's original borders only extended up to the Bug river. That was my point, I was not and never had advocated German control over those regions I was simply making an analogy.