Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2008 17:35:09 GMT -5
Bah, the guy is totaly ignorant. Every once in a while he goes out to say Slobodan Milosevic was a great Serb hero.  At least 80% of people here consider Milosevic as hero. |
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Post by Lonevolk on Jan 19, 2008 18:29:20 GMT -5
First of all I suggest you all tone down your language!
Second, Pastir I think sometimes you're too smart for your own good.....You don't always need to be provocative and rude to get your point across.....and I didn't realise that you're a "qualified psychologist" passing judgements on people's personalities based on a few posts.
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As far as the Obrenovic dynasty goes, I personally see them as mostly a negative development, but you're conclussions are VERY simplistic IMO.
I can't get into a detailed explanation, cause I'm writing from work.....maybe in a couple of days.....interesting topic BTW
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Post by pastir on Jan 19, 2008 19:41:59 GMT -5
First of all I suggest you all tone down your language! I suggest you enforce civilty here from the start so I don`t have to suffer the initial insults by vukota-like halfwitts to start with. Failing to do that you can at the very least stay clear out of my way when I up the tone in retalliation and bring the dinlos down. Second, Pastir I think sometimes you're too smart for your own good..... And I think you`re being obnoxious and constantly speak to me from a high horse. And this quote of yours is a perfect example of it. You don't always need to be provocative and rude to get your point across..... You don`t always need to get irritated by everything I say that doesn`t perfectly fit in your viewframe. and I didn't realise that you're a "qualified psychologist" passing judgements on people's personalities based on a few posts. I`ve known Vukota longer than you have. He was an ignorant one dimensional fool incapable of thinking then and he stil is now. Maybe you ought to read some of his posts and take note in what tone he speaks of different Slavic nations. But nooo you get on my case instead. As far as the Obrenovic dynasty goes, I couldn`t care less about dynastic politics. Obrenovici, Karađorđevici, like I give a toss. I`m making an illustration to point out a monarchy can be just as anti-national as a democracy and that by extention then there is nothing inherently nationalistic about a monarchy. Certainly not more than in a democracy and that monarchic nostalgia is thus redundant for a nationalist. but you're conclussions are VERY simplistic IMO. I don`t have time to write 20 pages on it. Of course there is more to the story than 3 paragraphs and there are some "easying circumstances" like the San Stefano Serbia-Bulgaria border, but the verdic ultimatley stands. As long as you are sincere about your Slavic Nationalism and do not sanctify (and thus trivialise) the whole of Serbia`s history you must neccesarily come to the same conclusions. But I suspect this is where the rabbit lies in the first place. You have already earliere demonstrated you are not willing to objetivley scrutinise Serb history when you in another topic kept claiming ` serbs were the only balkan people to consistently and always fought foreign occupation` even when I presented you with obvious examples to the contrary in the form of Prince Lazarevic and Kraljevic Marko fighting alongside the Turks as vassals of Sultan. I guess this is why you can`t help yourself but get irritated by me instead of an anti-pan-slav like Vukota and actually jump to his defense. |
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Post by White Cossack on Jan 19, 2008 20:02:55 GMT -5
Actually Pastir, your last post just proves Lonevolk's point. I can't understand why you need to be so defensive and "rude" about things.
Lonevolk is only doing his job as a moderator, and he didn't disrespect you.
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Post by pastir on Jan 19, 2008 20:27:10 GMT -5
Is that so? Second, Pastir I think sometimes you're too smart for your own good.....Where I come from when someone says someone is "too smart for their own good" it is a mayor sign of disrespect and at the very least means you`re calling the person in question a pametnjaković but ussually also means you are bent on physical confrontation. But he combined it with "sometimes" and "I think" so I should be happy with it because it is only condescending? |
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Post by Lonevolk on Jan 20, 2008 7:15:06 GMT -5
Just a quick reply..... You and Me will always have a fundamental disagreement about our regions history because I don't accept your delusions no matter how much you nit-picking thru history......I'll refrain today from posting counter examples. If you expect me to equalise the role of Serbia and Croatia as some sort of equals fighting together against foreigners (ala YU brotherhood and unity) then I'm going to have to disappoint you. I don't get as irritated as you think. I actually agree with some of what you write......but what exactly did you expect to get from people attached to the monarchy when you decided on the title of your post???.....praises maybe Till next time...... |
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Post by srbobran on Jan 20, 2008 13:15:02 GMT -5
The only reason Despot Stefan Lazarevic ascending into Turkish vassalage was because the Hungarian King, Sigismund, took advantage of our poor situation and ravaged our northern lands; most tend to ignore this fact. However, later the Serbian despots broke free from Turkish vassalage and ascended into a Hungarian one where they fought against the Ottomans. Our leaders did what they had to in order to save the Serbian people.
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Vladimir
Mayor
Gospod carstvuje!
Posts: 604
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Post by Vladimir on Jan 20, 2008 15:01:50 GMT -5
What a surprise. A Ljoticevac speaking up for a collaborator with the Germans. What`s next? Elton John sucking a dick? Oh wait, already happened. You're bullshitting beyond imagination, I already told you that. And you know nothing about Dimitrije Ljotić to even judge him. Your stupid view is a typical communist post war bullshit about "collaboration" and fighting the "Serbian fascists", so they could put their political enemies in Serbia, in the same basket with Ustašas. And Serbian volunteer corps (SDK) were heroes as much as general Vlasovs's ROA. In fact the two were close allies and ROA was even destroyed in attempt to reach Serbia and help their Serbian brothers in destroying the communist vermin. So you can shove your stupid little Bolshevik propaganda up your arse! Be a good Tito's pioneer - that's all you ever know in your life. ------------------------------------------------------- As for your crap about king Milan Obrenović, if you based your opinion on some book written by a British historian then you're definitely a lost case. For last 400 years Brits have been proven enemies of all Slavs, perhaps even greater enemies than the rest of the Germanics. While at the same time their historians the worst biased crap-eaters that world has ever seen. You think that the last 20 years in their anti-Serbian and anti-Russian propaganda is an exception? Their materialistic, God hating, Jewish, Mamon-worshiping world can't stand us Slavs, for being totally opposite!!! King Milan Obrenović did what he had to do, because he was taking care of Serbian national interest, while on the other hand Russian empire and Bulgaria took care of their interests. As simple as that. Other than that I won't say anything because I don't want to argue here with the Bulgarian and Russian brothers about some circumstances that occurred in 19th century. All in all - shame on you for calling one honorable and good king a traitor, he was a patriot and a great king and certainly not traitor to his own country and especially not to Slavdom!!!! |
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Vladimir
Mayor
Gospod carstvuje!
Posts: 604
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Post by Vladimir on Jan 20, 2008 15:18:23 GMT -5
Kao šta pastir reèe: "I suggest the folks coming forth with their `monarchism` to instead of manifesting nostalgia for something they never experienced and speaking out of their ass to instead go and actually read a thing or two on what it meant and what it brought us." I don't give a damn what Pastir says, because to comment something he first has to pull his head out of his communist arse. He also showed that he knows absolutely nothing about orthodoxy too, because if he did, he'd knew that orthodox nations can't go without monarchic forms of government. Something that two-headed eagle symbolizes - the Church and the state - the emperor and the patriarch. And I'd always choose any of our rulers in the past than all of our "democratic, republican" politicians in last 20 years. That's something he can't understand, because he simply isn't Serb! |
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Post by srbobran on Jan 20, 2008 18:57:11 GMT -5
I agree. The Serbian Volunteer Corps (and Serbian State Guard, a much overlooked Axis Serbian anti-communist formation) were ideologically motivated to fighting communism ; they were not fighting for a Greater Germany or any such idea , they fought for Serbia. A good source about the SDK is "Belgrade's Best, Serbian Volunteer Corps 1941-1945". You can purchase the book on Amazon.com
Exactly. Our medieval rulers were our best. There's a reason Serbia was such a powerful and prosperous state in the middle age; we had competent rulers and not some Westernized morons with a 6th grade education.
Milan Obrenovic was, on whole, a good king. His only mistake was attacking Bulgaria in 1885; other than that, he did modernize Serbia to a huge degree and helped us catch up with Europe in a very short time frame.
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Post by ratnik on Jan 21, 2008 5:21:15 GMT -5
Hahah...! Bulgarinas along the Serbian army !!! Keep on dreaming...! How could you have had “some 2000 officers” in Bulgaria(!) when at the time you ware occupied by the Ottoman Empire? The Legion of Georgi Stoikov, known as Rakovski. This Legion fought in the serbian army at Gredetin and Belgrade. Georgi Rakovski The legionaries from the Bulgarian Legion  And an information about the Bulgarian Legion and its fights: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_legion |
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Post by ratnik on Jan 21, 2008 5:39:26 GMT -5
His only mistake was attacking Bulgaria in 1885; As a Bulgarian, I don't think this was a mistake. This was a good occasion to be tested the Bulgarian army and the patriotic spirit. Exactly this vile serbian attack "knife in the back" style provoked a great explosion of Bulgarian nationailsm and changed the mentality of the whole nation. The Bulgarians realised that the so called "slavic brotherhood" is one beautiful lie, which can be used by covetous rulers for their own ambitions (just like Obrenovic). The Bulgarian people stopped to believe that "mother Russia" will always help them (because Russia was the greatest enemy of the Union between Knyazhestvo Bulgaria and Eastern Rumelia) and began to rely on their own strenght. This was very important for them as a young and inexperienced nation. The serbian attack was something like a big slap, which made the little kid to become a grown man who does not believe anymore in fairy tales. So srbobran - according to me this was not a mistake, but a good lesson for Bulgaria. |
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Post by soldier7799 on Jan 21, 2008 13:45:24 GMT -5
Thousands dead slavs is not mistake?!?!Brothers killing each other is not mistake?!
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Post by Poruchik on Jan 21, 2008 13:48:19 GMT -5
Right on, ratnik, you made very accurate conclusions. Is this guy pastir a Serb, if so, I congratulate him too. More of them should admit their sins towards us.
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Post by jaropolk on Jan 21, 2008 14:10:09 GMT -5
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