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Post by alex318 on Sept 5, 2007 19:28:18 GMT -5
I choose Khruschev because he bought the Soviet Union out of its terrible repressive Stalinism methods and stood up for it against nation that opposed it.
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Post by White Cossack on Sept 5, 2007 20:04:21 GMT -5
Maybe if you had some truly good leaders in there we could vote.  You know, we had leaders before 200 years ago as well. |
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Post by alex318 on Sept 5, 2007 21:27:35 GMT -5
I know I couldn't think of any besides Peter and Catherine the Great. All the leaders back then were great in my opinion. Even Ivan the terrible. But today I feel people can disagree over who is a good leader. Also I tried to think about other leaders besides Yugoslav and Russians.
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Post by Volkov on Sept 6, 2007 6:33:18 GMT -5
put some better leaders
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Kuboslav
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Post by Kuboslav on Sept 6, 2007 6:45:57 GMT -5
From those the best is Putin, but why tou have only Russian + one Yugoslavian? Rest of Slavic countries had too ownn leaders, maybe even better...
And why you give us so many communist scum?
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Post by White Cossack on Sept 6, 2007 9:43:22 GMT -5
Any list with Lenin can't be taken seriously. Unless it's a list of the greatest scum on earth... He wasn't even Slavic. I advice you to reformulate your list.
Some non Russian leaders who could be there: Bohdan Khmelnicki; Ian Sobieski; Jagiello - Lithuanian, but whatever - Yaroslav I; Vladmir Sviatoslavich. For those who like warrior types: Sviatoslav Igorevitch.
We should filter some names before making a final list.
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Kuboslav
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Post by Kuboslav on Sept 6, 2007 10:09:24 GMT -5
Josef Pilsudski, Josef Poniatovski, Tadeusz Kostiuschko and many other  ... |
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Post by White Cossack on Sept 6, 2007 10:27:15 GMT -5
Pilsudski? He was an idiot... Just a little better than the likes of Lenin. He was a commie as well, by the way.
Zhukov? He was amazing, but I thought it was about leaders in the strict sense, so Zhukov wouldn't make it to the list.
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Kuboslav
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Post by Kuboslav on Sept 6, 2007 10:45:25 GMT -5
He wasn't a commie! He belonged to Socialist Partei, but only from patriotic reasons, cause it was against those, who tired Poles! He hated communists, especcialy bolsheviks! He wasn't an idiot! He wanted to make a federation of Slavic countries (not all off course), which could stop Soviet Russia! It's one of greatest men, who was born in Poland...
He already in I WW was not a member of these Partei... And he searched for help in Galicja not in russian communists, cause they were against any Independence... He could help generals of White Russia, but they were too stupid (they said, that when they'll win, thay won't agree with beeing of Polish independence state)... And in 1920 charged against Tuchaczevski's and Budionny's Red Scums and showed them who's better... He rescued all Europa! Without him we would have propably communism all over Europe, from Moscow to Lisbone, so don't talk these bullshit!
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Kuboslav
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Post by Kuboslav on Sept 6, 2007 11:55:24 GMT -5
He refused to help Whites! Whites were blind and thought that they are so strong as when tzar lived, but they were wrong... Pilsudski tried to help Ukrainians, Belarusians and Lithuanians... They didn't want and ended in USSR...
I understand, that imperial Russians don't like him but don't understand those stupid zingers... He wasn't a tool, but a leader of one of greatest countries in Europe! He tried to restore Polish position as powerful state! I hope that here are more people who believe in that what i say, not in your dirty lies...
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Post by Slavski on Sept 6, 2007 12:23:49 GMT -5
Look with all due respect no great leader can be a chome dome or fatass. It makes them WAY too self conscious to make effective policy decisions. Nikita was both a cue ball and lardass.
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Kuboslav
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Post by Kuboslav on Sept 6, 2007 12:27:25 GMT -5
Cause it was good for Poland! You are a nationalist and don't understand so simply things?! I told, that he wanted good not for all Slavs, he thought that Russia is main enemy of independent Poland and he was right!
Today, I think, that Russia is a great country, in those times was also, but then we (Poles) were under Tzar's hand! If now Russians, Czechs or another slavic counktry would attack us, I wouldn't wonder, if i should fight for my country... I'm sure that he tried to reach an agreement with Japans not against Slavs, but for Poland and, what goes for it, against Russian Empire! Is it so hard to understand?
I think that only people from Balkans can understand how we suffered without our country! They have Turks upon them, we had Austria, Prussian and Russia, so they were our enemies! Not important if they were Slavs or weren't...
I hope that you understand it... If not, then I made a mistake and something is wrong with your thinking abilities... I could understand if commie says something like you... But don't understand a nationalist, especcially Slavic Nationalist... Aha, Pilsudski wasn't a nationalist too, he loved his country and that's all...
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Kuboslav
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Post by Kuboslav on Sept 6, 2007 13:40:28 GMT -5
I tell you about history! If you say in this way to me, you should say the same to all Serbs, Bosniaks, Croats, Macedonians and Bulgarians about Turks! "Born before 30 years talking about 100 years old events like they personally experienced them!"... Every of us have grandfathers, who also had them and heard many things, was raised in specifical type of culture wich has her own likes and dislikes, her own history, pains and triumphs... And you're trying to simplify it... I don't even want to know, why do you behave in that way... But, undeniably, it's regrettable...
And your question to me... I didn't hear about it, but it has to be some kind of provocation...
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Post by White Cossack on Sept 6, 2007 14:37:38 GMT -5
Kuboslav, he supported japs against Russians, he was a communist with close connection to the bolsheviks. He was a hateful anti-Russian and he had imperialistic inclinations towards Ukraine - too much for a freedom loving fighter . If you like him, that's your problem, and I won't argue how you Poles view him, that's your issue alone. But for me, he was total scum. Dmowski was also a Nationalist, and he did not suffer from the pathologies Pilsudski did, so that's no excuse. Slavian, The fact that 70 years of alien communistic domination represented the darkest and grimest period of time in over a millenium of Slavic History is enough for us to remember it, ALWAYS. 20 years is NOTHING. We should remember it for much longer than that, so we are not doomed to let germanic semitic trash to dominate our souls once again. A freak would be someone who ignores things which happened not too long ago, or worse, those who condone them. Brainwashed by whom? American neocon media? And if you think the red danger is over, than I feel sorry for you, because you will be easily taken by their propaganda, sooner or later. So, what is the increasingly colectivization of Europe? What are people like Moore and Chomsky doing out there? Leftist ideologies are not a static thing, they evolve, and revolutionares use different tactics of domination. |
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Post by White Cossack on Sept 6, 2007 15:37:57 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with acting like victims. It's all about demonizing a past that should be demonized. commies will always be the biggest scum on earth to me, and that has nothing to do with crying about the past. I mention them because I don't want them to ever get to power again, that's all.
Furthermore, we should lay the blame where it rightfully belongs, which is why we shouldn't let it go away.
PS: You should read an article Chornyvolk posted about the ways of EU, and how it is becoming more and more like SU, all from the mouth of a soviet dissident.
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