Post by White Cossack on Jul 20, 2005 16:44:57 GMT -5
I have this book called "The feudal World", and the author - non Slavic - raises the question that the Slavs were probably the superiors of the Germanics when it came to warfare. I need to re read it, but he points out several moments when the Slavs were massacrating Germanic scum and raiding Byzantine cities. The Slavs were also sailors from since the 6th Century - most probably earlier than that - much before than anything the continental Germanics ever pulled out regarding navigation. The Slavs also had a much deeper knowledge on agriculture, with superior tools and technic.
Post by makedonskisloven on Jul 20, 2005 18:32:46 GMT -5
There is some research now into the gothic language and it seems its vocubulary has more slavic in it then germanic. if brumi is who i think he is he is able to elighten us further on this topic.
White Cossack you are right the slavic sailors like the veneti were actually ahead of even the so called great seafearing nations the hellenes.Some historians even think the minoans were proto slavic.
It seems that we have to throw much of our previous "knowledge " about the past overboard and start afresh when it comes to prehistory and slavic prehistory in particular.
Have people on this board become aware of the translation of ancient inscriptions throughout europe form france east using slavic as the key.Even in cities set up by alexander the great in syria there are sincriptions that are intelligable using slavic, mindblowing implications.
Well, I think I could respond to some of your posts.
Genetics for example. I don't know much, only from reports I have read from various sources. Many genealogists have come to that fact actually, more or less: most European nations have around 80% of genes which can be traced to Paleolith if not sooner. The only exception are the Greeks who's genes go back only some 4000-3000 years. Interestingly 60% of ancient Greek vocabulary is not Indo-European and less than 20% of place names in Greece (which are considered Greek) are Indo-European. This brings us to that fact that ancient Greeks traced their descent to Egyptians. (you can check work of Herodotus if you want)
Now as for the Minoans, I have some clues that they were Slavic thou I have not explored that very much. First clue is that modern Cretans are genetically closest to Macedonians and that they belong to the older Mediterranean substractum. (you can check for genetic studies here: www.maknews.com/html/articles/genetic_studies/hla_genes.html) The second clue was from Sergei V. Rjabchikov who deciphered couple of Minoan texts and the mysterious Phaistos disk: www.openweb.ru/rongo/disk.htm
The Gothic vocabulary: www.freelang.net/dictionary/gothic.html There are many similar words between Gothic and Slavic. Goths were a warrior nation, not farmers or builders. It is quite obvious they would mix with Slavs and even recruit some of them. A linguistical and ethnical mixture was immanent.
The Veneti of the Atlantic coast were very good seafarers. They even colonized Britain and many Slavic place names can be found on certain coastal regions. Some even say they sailed all the was to America, which makers me think why is the Mayan script so similar to ours. If you want I could give you some toponyms and inscriptions found in southern France.
There is much to be learned. I trace Slavic descent all the way to Vincha. I disagree with any form of a mass migration for they were physically impossible until 19th ct AD. It is a misunderstood case when around 100.000 Slavic warriors from Panonia and Carpathia crossed Danube and attack the Byzantines. I wouldn't call that a mass migration, would you?
Oh, and Romanians and Hungarians are genetically pure Slavs mind you. I quote Mr. Alinei: "Romanian appears to be an intrusive language, introduced in Neolithic times into the Slavic area by Impresso/Cardial farmers coming from Dalmatia (Hamangia culture)."
In my theory Hungarians were most probably the steppe nomads who settled Panonia in Neolith, which was misunderstood as a migration of Indo-Europeans. Or they cold be the descendants of those Uralic peoples who stayed in Panonia since Paleolith and didn't migrate north. I remind that a mass migration before 19th ct Ad was possible only before the discovery of farming with the primitive hunters and gatherers, or in an organized state like Byzantium for example. I also like to add that the differentiation among Indo-European languages occurred prior to 10.000 years ago and modern linguist explore new theories: was language present in Australopithecus.
Well I don't know any of them, except Wales. There is a book from a Serbian scholar, a woman actually, who gives many examples of similarities between Celtic and Slavic vocabulary, even thou according to official history these two language groups never met. Once I read it I will be more than happy to give you those names.
I also want to turn your attention to a number of Christians who lived in Southern France in the Middle Ages called Cathars. Now i know what are you thinking: Da Vinci's Code, right? Well no actually. I watched the documentary and it wasn't just the Cathar Christianity that caught my attention, but something I pieced together from my earlier readings. First, the area in which Cathars lived was once inhabited by the Veneti a.k.a. Slavs, thus the Southern French are Slavs, which is also showed by the genetic studies. I'm not sure, but either the Venetic tribes of Volkae or Salevi lived in that area.
Second, the symbol of the Cathars was a cross inside a circle, a symbol present in Slavic mythology since ancient times.
Third, an article I read from a Czech Antonín Horák's book Completely different about the Slavs where he presents facts that in that exact area Romans and later the inquisition destroyed and assimilated Slavic inhabitants of Southern France. Apparently it continued until the Medieval period.
Oh and, can anyone guess which year is it according to the Slavic calendar? Hint: agriculture in Danubia.
And I almost forgot: the symbol of the Two-Headed Eagle represents division and destruction, so if anyone doesn't want their country be thorn apart he better rethink. I'm not sure, but that's what I heared from a very reliable source.
Just remember the Byzantines. You know why Islam exists: Muhammed was sent to revenge the death of Christ and as far I can tell the Muslims did destroy the last bastion of the Roman empire (Turks vs Byzantines) and they'll soon if not later destroy Israel as well.
Post by makedonskisloven on Jul 24, 2005 22:37:40 GMT -5
Interesting connection between the cathars and the bogomils brumi. According to some historians it was dalmatian sailors who too bogomil teachings to the south of france as well as to northern italy especially around venice.
If you want I could give you some toponyms and inscriptions found in southern France.
Most certainly do.
------ Point on Hungarians. Official party line that they are descendants of Ugric tribes, related to Fins and Estonians. Ugric origin is placed east of Ural. Lingual structure does seem to support this claim.
What do you have to say about this? -- Welcome back, brother.
Nationalism has to be expressed as a style, as a way of life, before it can become an electoral movement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Uralic Continuity Theory In the last thirty years, there has been an important breakthrough in the history of European origins, which only recently has begun to attract the attention of specialists of other areas. This is the so called Uralic Continuity Theory (in Finnish: uralilainen jatkuvuusteoria), developed in the Seventies by archaeologists and linguists specialised in the Uralic area of Europe, that is the area of Finno-Ugric and Samoyed languages. This theory claims an uninterrupted continuity of Uralic populations and languages from Paleolithic: Uralic people would belong to the heirs of Homo sapiens sapiens coming from Africa, they would have occupied mid-eastern Europe in Paleolithic glacial times, and during the deglaciation of Northern Europe, in Mesolithic, would have followed the retreating icecap, eventually settling in their present territories (Meinander 1973, Nuñez 1987, 1989, 1996, 1997, 1998). The relevance of this theory for our problem lies in the following points: (1) it replaces an earlier ‘invasion theory’, quite similar to the traditional IE one, and practically modelled on it. (2) It represents the first claim of uninterrupted continuity from Paleolithic of the second European linguistic phylum, thus opening the way to a similar theory for IE. (3) It is now current not only among specialists of Finno-Ugric prehistory and of Finno-Ugric languages, but has become part of the general culture in all countries where Uralic languages are spoken. (4) It obliges to question the validity of the until now accepted chronology for the innumerable Uralic loanwords from contiguous IE and Turkic languages. There is thus every reason to advance a similar theory for the major linguistic phylum of Europe. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
To put it simple: Hungarians and other Uralic peoples lived in Europe before and then parallel with Indo-European and other races. They moved north along the shifting glaciers. They were not much farmers like Indo-Europeans, first among them proto-Balto-Slavs, and over millennia lived as hunters, gatherers, and eventually cattle breeders. I suspect that Hungarians remained in Panonia until this day whereas their brethren moved north all the way to Ural. I cannot say for sure, but their warrior like character apparently evolved during the Roman campaigns, and I can tell you they did a very fine job since Romans didn't make it far in Panonia.
I would like just to point that Attila the Hun was neither Avar nor Hun (later named Hungarians) nor was he related to these peoples. Attila was a Kievan prince. The centre of his empire was Kiev which was founded around the year 430 AD (according to Striykosky), during his rule. You might want to check the work of Alexandar Fomich Veljtman: Attila and Russia in the 4th and 5th ct (in Serbian).
And since I see that no one has answered my question of which year is it according to the Slavic calendar I guess I’ll have to give you the answer myself:
This is not according to the Byzantine calendar (they never used it) nor Jewish (according to their's it's the year 5766). This is a calendar of the Balkan Slavs. This would mean it was started around 5508 years BC. If you take a good look at the archeological reports you will see that this is the approximate time that first farming communities started to form in Danubia all the way to Macedonia. You will also pay attention to the word calendar. This is not a Greek word for they didn’t have a calendar and we all know how the Romans said: Ad calendam Greacas (meaning never, and it wasn’t a Latin word either). The word calendar comes from Slavic kolodar (kolo=circle; dar=gift, to give). I’m pretty much sure most of you know of Koleda, one of many God’s aspects in the ancient Slavic pantheon (to this I remind you that old Slavic Vedic religion was monotheistic, as is modern Indian; Koleda was the God of the Sun and the Sun circle at one point; I think he was the son of Dajbog one of the oldest aspects of God in the Slavic religion that can be tracked all the way to Vincha (4000 BC) and before) and the Slavic Christmas songs called Koledarske piesne (that’s in Slovak).
Very interesting. In russian we still have Koljadki.
The claim about Atilla is extrodinary, once I get a textbook of serbian I will atempt at reading the links.
I understand how others treat you just because your views are not "mainstream" I am not one of those people, I am quite eager to see what you have to say and the evidence you have to support. ----- For example, I would love more evidence of Makedonia being our motherland.
I recently read that a stonehendge, like the one in England has been found in the Balkans.
Kelt-Slav relationship is also fascinating one.
Nationalism has to be expressed as a style, as a way of life, before it can become an electoral movement.
The term Makedon appears somewhere in the 2nd millennia BC when the Egyptians and Phoenicians started to colonize the Balkan Peninsula. The ancient proto-Slavic inhabitants of Balkans were the so called Pelasgians (Belasci). The Egyptians mixed with the Pelasgians (not all) and created in time the so called Mycenaean civilization. This later fell apart and was replaced by the Greek civilization known as the City States. The term Hellenes comes from Pelasgian (X)ellene meaning 'newcomers' (Egyptians) like today we have word seliti (Serbian; to move) and I think in Bulgarian there is a word ele. Of course these newcomers established a mighty war-like civilization (they were conquerors) which soon created problems. One of the Pelasgic tribes was called the Bryges. These Bryges inhabited what is to know as Macedonia, south Thracia and part of Asia Minor (where they created the Phrygian empire). They fought many wars against the Mycenaeans and their allies; one such was the Trojan War. In the Brygian language the term Makedon means motherland, homeland; it is how they call it and in time it became their name.
Other interesting facts are that in the Republic of Macedonia, only on 10% of explored territory over 400.000 rock-art carvings were found. That is more of just archeological discoveries than whole of Europe can provide. www.unet.com.mk/rockart/
I can say for certain that a great culture flourished in Balkans as far as the most remote times since human arrival to Europe. This culture eventually brought such great civilizations as Vincha in Danubia and expanded further into Ukraine where the Trypillian civilization existed. These civilizations were very advanced. The inhabitants of these settlements which 6.000 years numbered a population as much as 10.000 people; they were skilled craftsmen, farmers; they produced works of art and with the knowledge of writing started a new age of human history. Their settlements, or we can call them cities, were more prosperous than any other in Europe and the number of their inhabitants not only have surpassed every other settlement of that time but even the ones which would be created later in Egypt and Mesopotamia. The only real comparison with the Vinchan cities could be found in India and China.
The reasons why these civilizations came down are numerous. From wars (thou these first appeared around 1300 BC) to natural disasters (famine, flood, earthquake…) We will know one day.
---------------------------- There is a monument that can be found in the Balkans called the Kokino Observatory
Post by Boris Sarafov on Jul 25, 2005 16:29:48 GMT -5
I think you should write a condensed "new" history of Slavic Civilizations. I would buy it in a heart-beat
Yaromir, I love your wanting to learn and read, and enthusiasm. Ive known and talked to Brumi aka Slovak for awhile now. Very Smart Man.
Im glad to know and talk to this fella.
"We, the Macedonians, are neither Serbs nor Bulgarians, we are simply Macedonians. The Macedonian people exist independently of the Serbian and the Bulgarian. We sympathize with each, both with the Bulgarians and with the Serbs: to those who will aid us in our struggle for freedom we will be grateful, however, let them not forget that Macedonia is only for the Macedonians...
imgur.com/a/IsoPl Kozacke Riesenie ak chceme prevziat vladu musime dat narodu ,viacej nez sluby.Musime im dat zaruku ze nasa vlada nebude ovladat ludi,ale ze bude sluzit narodu.Tato zaruka bude
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