Some of Czechs are not Slavs

[Vladimir]

kolowrat said:

i believe to you but all border slav countries have influence or some other nation.

did you ever mention that eastern germans are at least 50% of slavic but they will never admit that.

you can do same in Chech because nation in modern days is not only connected to "ancestors" but also is matter of choosing/liking/loving.

The way you can put Chechs to think about their Slavic origins is by forums like this or some "marketing capaign".

I agree, brother. At least 1/3 of the population of Germany are of Slavic origin, and not just east Germans but also Bavarians and Austrians ( mostly Slovenes and Czechs by origin).

Besides, every five days comes out a new "scientist" with a new theory and new "genetic evidence". Don't let them divide us.

It's almost symptomatic how no one questions the common origin of all Germanics, but they always question the common origin of all Slavs. Germanics even try to prove that Celtic peoples are actually Germanics.

They've got a growing movement, just look at the Skadi forum. We have to be more serious and fight for our cause. We are the most numerous folk in Europe. Think about that!

[nb78]

It would be interesting if they did a genetics test in the Balkans. It might actually settle a few arguments.

[Vladimir]

nb78 said:

It would be interesting if they did a genetics test in the Balkans. It might actually settle a few arguments.

Like what?

[nb78]

nat1onal15t said:

nb78 said:

It would be interesting if they did a genetics test in the Balkans. It might actually settle a few arguments.

Like what?

I don't know, maybe questions like; are Albanians actually European or middle eastern? Is there a difference between Croats and Serbs? Are modern Greeks actually related to ancient Greeks? Etc, etc..

[joko]

Albanians are for the most part Illyrians, so yes they are European, and small numbers of Roman probably too. Ancient Greeks from what I've read are not the exact same thing as modern Greeks.

[kolowrat]

There are some genetic research in Bosnia on about 150 male sample. (1/3 serbs, 1/3 croats and 1/3 bosniaks - bosnian muslims)
and also some small research in Serbia but not so represetative one.

there are no difference between Serbs and Bosniaks
and there is some difference between them and Croats

Serbs have more E3b haplogroup conected with old-natives of Balkan (Ilyrians) then Croats.
Serbs also (interesting) have more R1b haplogroup - so called "WestEuropean" Group
(probably northern parts)
R1a Slavic group is presented by almost 20%
and I group, also Slavic but UgroFinnic and Nordic. too with over 30%.
There is also noticed present of J group (Jews, Turkish) with about 5-9%.Croats does not have it.

IT IS NOT SO BLACK AND WHITE.

We (SERBS) are sure part of Slav people but with strong influence of native people which lives here before Slavs arrived and
also we have "genetic influence" of many many tribes and nations: Greeks, Turkish, Blgars, Vlachs.

But big conclusion that goes up to slavic origin of the Serbs is that we have same Slavic language, tradition, culture that differs from Vlach, Albanian or Greek.

[kolowrat]

Vlach land was unique before 5-6ct AD (Romanians and Albanians have some things in common)


The Romanian language shows evidence of having been originated from a substratum that shares in common with Albanian, spoken in Southern Illyria. A branch of the Vlach people still inhabits in that original homeland.
It was in the 11th century c.e. that the Vlach language split into the present-day Romanian and Aromanian

[kolowrat]

even Croats and Bulgarians presented as SLAVICIZED not SLAVIC
?

[nb78]

Haha, Macedonians aren't even Slavic at all according to that map. There's probably some truth to that though. Many Macedonians are not Slavic at all. I feel that I' am Slavic but the more I read into it lately, the more... hmmm.

[Vladimir]

nb78 said:

nat1onal15t said:

Like what?

I don't know, maybe questions like; are Albanians actually European or middle eastern?

Albanians are actually of Tataro-Turkish origin, Cherkez to be precise. They're originally from Caucasus, and they've came to Balkans in the 11th century.

Illyrian theory is quite outdated. Only Albanians themselves advocate this theory today!

nb78 said:

Is there a difference between Croats and Serbs?

There is - cultural, religious and civilizational. Other differences are dubious.

Croats of today are a typical product of Vatican and Austro-Hungarian politics. They look like a mixture of Italian and Hungarian mentality with additional ultramontane sentiment, to me.
As for theories about their origin - their scientist claim several theories including Avar, Goth, Iranian and almost abandoned Slavic theory. And of course Serb catholic theory.

Serbs are the product of Byzantine cultural, religious and civilizational influence. Together with the traditional Slavic elements they make a whole.

nb78 said:

Are modern Greeks actually related to ancient Greeks? Etc, etc..

They are!

We (SERBS) are sure part of Slav people but with strong influence of native people which lives here before Slavs arrived and
also we have "genetic influence" of many many tribes and nations: Greeks, Turkish, Blgars, Vlachs.

This is complete nonsense. We share nothing and have nothing in common, in genetical sense, with these peoples, except for Vlachs.

The Romanian language shows evidence of having been originated from a substratum that shares in common with Albanian, spoken in Southern Illyria. A branch of the Vlach people still inhabits in that original homeland.
It was in the 11th century c.e. that the Vlach language split into the present-day Romanian and Aromanian

This is also a complete nonsense and a theory with a little evidence in the real world. Albanian is a completely non-indoeuropean language filled with Serbian ( Slavic) and Latin words. That's something that science already proved!

[nb78]

nat1onal15t said:

nb78 said:

I don't know, maybe questions like; are Albanians actually European or middle eastern?

Albanians are actually of Tataro-Turkish origin, Cherkez to be precise. They're originally from Caucasus, and they've came to Balkans in the 11th century.

Illyrian theory is quite outdated. Only Albanians themselves advocate this theory today!

There is - cultural, religious and civilizational. Other differences are dubious.

Croats of today are a typical product of Vatican and Austro-Hungarian politics. They look like a mixture of Italian and Hungarian mentality with additional ultramontane sentiment, to me.
As for theories about their origin - their scientist claim several theories including Avar, Goth, Iranian and almost abandoned Slavic theory. And of course Serb catholic theory.

Serbs are the product of Byzantine cultural, religious and civilizational influence. Together with the traditional Slavic elements they make a whole.

They are!

This is complete nonsense. We share nothing and have nothing in common, in genetical sense, with these peoples, except for Vlachs.

The Romanian language shows evidence of having been originated from a substratum that shares in common with Albanian, spoken in Southern Illyria. A branch of the Vlach people still inhabits in that original homeland.
It was in the 11th century c.e. that the Vlach language split into the present-day Romanian and Aromanian

This is also a complete nonsense and a theory with a little evidence in the real world. Albanian is a completely non-indoeuropean language filled with Serbian ( Slavic) and Latin words. That's something that science already proved!

See, this is what I'm talking about. You're telling me all these things (and you could be right) but how do I know they're correct when someone else will tell me something else? It's all just theories and what we need is some concrete evidence.

[kolowrat]

When slavs arrived at Balkans they conquer Iliryans and asimilate them.
Slavs was not interested in area of today Albania and big part of Romania because of high monutains.
Ilirians and Vlachs retreat high in mountains
or just stay in they not invaded land.
Albanians are sure some middle Asian tribe but they mixed with Ilirians and had no influence by Slavs at all.
And i believe they do have sometnihg with Iliryans and Vlachs.
Some of new Serbian schoolars want to tell they have notting in common with Ilryrian because of politics.


Couple of villages in Eastern Serbia far away from Albania, even closer to Romania and Bulgaria have albanian (precisely Ilyirian) names today (Špaj, Veta). People who live in those villages have different slang, look, etc etc. They are not so open to others. Living in close society.
No more than 5km from them is "Vlach valley"...

None of these i ve mentioned up are nonsence.
I would like that to be nonsence but...
take it easy

Ilyrians couldnt disapear from land.
most of them is asimilated by Serbs (Slavs) but in some areas they saved way of living, speaking,...

[kolowrat]

I do believe Albanians have more in common with old natives but
i have never unterstand people who are shame of being settlementer (not native one).


Today land of Serbia and Bosnian and Croatian part where Serbs live was quite un-populated extept Eastern Serbia and maybe Voivodina.

Slavic tribes on Balkan:

Serbian slavic tribes>
Srbi, Moravci, Sumadinci, Mijaci, Brsjaci, Decani, Timocani, Branicevci, Torlaci,...

Croatian slavic tribes>
Hrvati, Bašèa, Banjani, Draganiæi, Konjuh,...

Slavic tribes which live in FYR of Macedonia>
Strumièani, Dragoviti, Berziti,...

Slavic tribes which live in Bulgaria>
Severi, Strumci (takodje), Smoljani and 7 slovenskih plemena

Slavic tribes in Greek macedonia - Northern Greece>
Sagudati, Dragoviti (also), Smoljani (also), Rinhini,

Slavic tribes which have lived in other parts of Greece but tottaly asimilated>
Velegiziti, Ezerci, Milingi, Vaniti,...

[kolowrat]

Dragoviti (Dragovichi, Dragoviæi) poreklo im je iz istoène Poljske i zap. Belorusije, a Belorusi su èisti Dragoviti. Centar im je bio grad Turow.

Strumjani, koji naseljavaju istocnu Makedoniju su poreklom iz oblasti Strumien, Poljska, gde još postoji grad Strumien i reka Strumien. U Makedoniji postoji grad Strumica, r. Strumesnica, r.
Struma.

- Berziti (Brizaner)- poreklo im je iz Branderburga, istocna Nemacka. Danas su germanizirani.

- Smoljani (Smeligden) koji su naselili pirinsku Makedoniju su isto iz istocne Nemacke.Danas su germanizirani.

- Srbi verovatno imaju veze sa Istoènom Nemaèkom, Jugozapadnom Poljskom i Severozapadnom Èeškom tj. Bohemijom i Lužicom i Lužièkim Srbima tim pre što
1. imamo isti naziv Serbi (Srbi),
2. u Srbiji postoji deo koji se zove Lužica,
3. ostala plemena su bila takoðe poreklom sa istih ili sliènih prostora.

- Moravci verovatno naziv od Velike Moravske (Chech and Slovak) ili Morave (Chech republic)

[Vladimir]

nb78 said:

See, this is what I'm talking about. You're telling me all these things (and you could be right) but how do I know they're correct when someone else will tell me something else? It's all just theories and what we need is some concrete evidence.

I've got concrete evidence for every statement I write here. Just tell me what're you interested in so I can post evidence.