krzysiek
Mladshiy Leytenant
Slavic and Proud
Posts: 231
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Post by krzysiek on Dec 9, 2007 21:58:32 GMT -5
I know how most of Russians see the future Slavic Union. First Belarus (which I can agree with as long as it will be on the basis of a free referendum). Then some of you say that Ukraine should be Russian due to the fact that half of the population is Russian (who cares about the other half, which is obviously a majority taking into consideration the past elections, they can be Russified, since they haven't their own identity anyway). Then lets incorporate Estonia into Russia, why not it also has a large Russian dispora. Then Serbia, which in its current situation, being at odds with the West will gladly accept Russian patronage. And then we have the "least slavic" and Catholic Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia. If they want to join the Union they will be required to convert to Orthodoxy( "the true Slavic religion" ) and change the alphabet from latin to cyrilica ("the true Slavic alphabet"). Once they do that we will forgive them their deviation from true slavicism and take them in. Obviously, by the comments you post here you see Poland as a black sheep of the family.
The only way this union would ever work is if all the Slavic nations would keep their sovereignty and cultural individuality, and have a fair representation in the governing body (based on population for example). It's understandable that Russia would have the most to say in the Union, but we all need to be seen as equal members. We don't need another Soviet Union and Moscow's patronage.
It is understandable that Western Slavs have more West European influance than the Eastern, but using that fact to determine who's more Slav is silly.
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Post by vara on Dec 9, 2007 22:47:16 GMT -5
I would most politely ask you to retract your statement. If Poland is the "black sheep" (your words, sir, not mine), it is due to its past actions against the subject populations under its rule (ie. the Brest Unia, the murder of Patriarch St Germogen, and the False Dmitri, to name a few). The fact is, Poland must decide whether it is Slavic or Western. At present, the Polish government is (unfortunately) a lickspittle for US policy. As for your comments about a "new USSR", that is a tad overblown, is it not?  Not to mention, being a repetition of the Bush-Rice line, I would say! Any further expansion of the present RF would lead to a society similar to pre-1914 Russia, which would not be a bad thing. I should say that Orthodox Russia treated Catholics better than Catholic Poland treated Orthodox! For instance, in 1914 (based on my grandfather's diaries), the commanders of the Kadetsky Korpus in Petersburg were the Lutheran Finnlander (that is, a Swede resident in Finland) General Mannerheim and the Catholic Pole General Poniatowski. The Catholic Church had a legal existence, quite unlike the situation for Orthodox in pre-partition Poland. In short, we are not only are the largest Slavic group, we showed in imperial times that we know how to integrate people of all faiths and nationalities into one whole. President Putin, I believe, is restoring that. You, as a Pole, must decide... Putin, or the West! This is not an academic decision, this is real. Choose wisely. Vara |
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Post by kat on Dec 10, 2007 5:39:24 GMT -5
Actually, Polish is further from Staroslav than Russian, Rusyn, or Slovak is! This is the legacy of Poland coming into Christianity via the papist church in 966. In fact, in the medieval Rzespublika, the language of the educated classes was Latin, and this influenced the development of early modern Polish. On the other hand, Russian is an organic development from Staroslav, and some argue (I think rightly) that Rusyn and Slovak are somewhat closer. Of course, this could lead into a discussion of the Rzespublika and how it changed due to the Jesuits and the Counter-reformation, but, there is no space now for that. Poland lost its struggle with Russia for the position of the leading Slavic state when it attempted to push the Unia down the throats of its Orthodox subjects. Part of the reason that occurred was the increasing estrangement of the Polish language form the remainder of Slavdom. Vara Back than in dark times of medieval Polish scholars were fallowing Czech example. (literature both- spiritual and secular, even in science too). Poles have formed Polish language since 14th century writting in Polish however using Czech "glosy/notes" (how so?) and they considered Polish languege to be less noble than Czech language. In 15th centruy was found University of Krakow however since than the German influence is major influence to shape Polish society. I wanted ask you Poles if you were told in school that there were found Polish dinars broken out in Cyrillic from peroid !BEFORE! 922 ;D and what about Cult of saint Gorazd applied in Poland before brutal catholicization/germanization ? ;D and what about Polish participation on genocide of Polabian Slavs under patrol of Oto III. You Poles are great opportunists from the beginning. |
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daver2
Leytenant
Rzeczpospolita
Posts: 288
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Post by daver2 on Dec 10, 2007 6:02:21 GMT -5
In short, we are not only are the largest Slavic group, we showed in imperial times that we know how to integrate people of all faiths and nationalities into one whole. President Putin, I believe, is restoring that. You, as a Pole, must decide... Putin, or the West! This is not an academic decision, this is real. Choose wisely. Yes you indeed showed in imperial times (which ones?) that you know how to integrate Slavs by murdering them and letting them die (Ukrainians). One whole? - we are Slavic nationalists and patriots - I don't want one Slavic nation - it is complete madness. Diversity is the most precious treasure in Slavic nations. You Russian imperialists could easily destroy it. |
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Post by vara on Dec 10, 2007 7:03:10 GMT -5
Unfortunately, Daver2's assertions lack a factual basis. Again, it is a case of unbacked purple prose. If there were massacres of Poles, where did they occur? When did they occur? Daver2's thesis does not stand on all fours, and it is expressed in emotional and strident language. Let us state it plainly. Poles were not persecuted in the old empire. Poles were rather prosperous, in fact. The only Poles repressed by the regime were political radicals or extreme nationalists. Indeed, there was no Russian analogue of the Hapsburg death camp at Tallerhof, where Rusyn and Slovak Orthodox were done to death by the Catholic authorities (Here is the URL to the Interfax article with citations to sources, quite unlike Daver2's curious lack of same: www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=3312). In short, Daver2's assertions lack any citations, therefore, we should ignore them. (BTW, how could Poles be repressed and hold high office in the empire at the same time? Sources with citations, please, sir?) Vara |
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Post by jaropolk on Dec 10, 2007 7:22:49 GMT -5
The culture of Bjelorus is Russian from the beginning. And Poland has created all the differences. Especially in language, which was a bad thing for Slavic culture, because Polish is the least Slavic language. You make me laugh you childish ignorant. The least Slavic language, haha. You are PATHETIC. I m sorry. I really am. But its true. Polish is the least Slavic language. When i hear words like HANDEL, VALISKA(french), DZIEKOVAC(danken), WEDROVAC(wandern),PILKA(latin), OPINIJA, FREKWENCIA, CEBULA(zwiebel) and so on untill infinity.........................................i ask my self how many actual Polish words are there left? O, one more...this one reaaly pisses me off....SZUKAC (SUCHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Come on, thats really too much. A german word for such a simple action....WHY? |
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Post by jaropolk on Dec 10, 2007 7:28:37 GMT -5
You make me laugh you childish ignorant. The least Slavic language, haha. You are PATHETIC. I m sorry. I really am. But its true. Polish is the least Slavic language. When i hear words like HANDEL, VALISKA(french), DZIEKOVAC(danken), WEDROVAC(wandern),PILKA(latin), OPINIJA, FREKWENCIA, CEBULA(zwiebel) and so on untill infinity.........................................i ask my self how many actual Polish words are there left? Im not saying this to make you angry i just tell that its time to do something about it. At the end of the 18 century allmost nobody in Czechia spoke Czech, but the will was present, and look at Czech language now. |
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Srbopol
Kapitan
Слава/Sława
Posts: 494
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Post by Srbopol on Dec 10, 2007 7:29:39 GMT -5
Kurwa?  |
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Post by kat on Dec 10, 2007 7:41:18 GMT -5
I m sorry. I really am. But its true. Polish is the least Slavic language. When i hear words like HANDEL, VALISKA(french), DZIEKOVAC(danken), WEDROVAC(wandern),PILKA(latin), OPINIJA, FREKWENCIA, CEBULA(zwiebel) and so on untill infinity.........................................i ask my self how many actual Polish words are there left? Im not saying this to make you angry i just tell that its time to do something about it. At the end of the 18 century allmost nobody in Czechia spoke Czech, but the will was present, and look at Czech language now. That is true, only the villagers were speaking Czech,, the cities were German. However the "Obrozenci" (members of National Rebirt Momevent) created new words mainly inspited by other Slavic languages. Some of new words were quite funny and "unusual" such as new name for handkerchie - "nosočistoplena" (nosecleanclouter) or new name for piano "vřinkoklapka" (racket-stopple). So some newly created words did not gained a popularity so some germanism are still present, but people usually use them if they want to attract other people. However today I am very awared of theose americanisms. It is all around and young people use it very often. As far as I know it means "curve/bend" in German, but in Czech and Polish i think it is one of the terms for describling bitch. |
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Post by jaropolk on Dec 10, 2007 7:47:50 GMT -5
Kurwa? Kurwa is latin; CURVA means "bended" woman. A women whos path isnt straight. |
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Post by Alexandrus on Dec 10, 2007 8:07:39 GMT -5
If Russia would have never conquered Poland and the opposite happened then you could be sure that the poles wouldn't treat us any differently. You ask how i know you would ? Just look at what happned to Western Ukraine and parts of Belorus.
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Srbopol
Kapitan
Слава/Sława
Posts: 494
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Post by Srbopol on Dec 10, 2007 8:07:45 GMT -5
loads of people have foriegn words from somewhere, i dont feel Polski si so bad at all, just different, but ofcourse many german influensed words but so what, its just a echo of previous wars and influences which hold no grounds now, is some words used in parts of balkans that are maybe of turkic influense but try find some people who use them who like Turks....lol..... so either way dosnt matter, no point changing to much now.....
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Post by Alexandrus on Dec 10, 2007 8:09:22 GMT -5
Yet the notion of polish not being slavic is just as ridiculous as the notion that Russian is mongolian or fino-ugric (which is one of the favorite bullshit lines from ukranian ''nationalists'').
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Srbopol
Kapitan
Слава/Sława
Posts: 494
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Post by Srbopol on Dec 10, 2007 8:24:46 GMT -5
im agreed on that.... Poles are a huge slavic nation and will remain so.....
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Post by jaropolk on Dec 10, 2007 8:37:08 GMT -5
loads of people have foriegn words from somewhere, i dont feel Polski si so bad at all, just different, but ofcourse many german influensed words but so what, its just a echo of previous wars and influences which hold no grounds now, is some words used in parts of balkans that are maybe of turkic influense but try find some people who use them who like Turks....lol..... so either way dosnt matter, no point changing to much now..... YOU JUST COULDNT BE WRONGER. LANGUAGE IS EVERYTHING A NATION HAS! IF WE DONT SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, WHAT POINT IS THERE MAKING A SLAVIC FORUM? THROUGH WHAT BESIDES LANGUAGE ARE THE SLAVS CONNECTED? BLOOD?  LANGUAGE IS CRUCIAL. IT DETERMINS THE WHOLE WAY OF THINKING. LOOK AT THE ENGLISH, THE LIVED IN CONDITIONS VERY SIMILAR TO OTHER GERMANIC PEOPLES IN THE MIDDLEAGES, BUT BECAUSE OF THE LANGUAGE THEY ARE OUTSIDERS OF ALL GERMANS NOW. |
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Not to mention, being a repetition of the Bush-Rice line, I would say! Any further expansion of the present RF would lead to a society similar to pre-1914 Russia, which would not be a bad thing. I should say that Orthodox Russia treated Catholics better than Catholic Poland treated Orthodox! For instance, in 1914 (based on my grandfather's diaries), the commanders of the Kadetsky Korpus in Petersburg were the Lutheran Finnlander (that is, a Swede resident in Finland) General Mannerheim and the Catholic Pole General Poniatowski. The Catholic Church had a legal existence, quite unlike the situation for Orthodox in pre-partition Poland.
