...last Wednesday, Mr. Putin took a major step to improve relations by becoming the first Russian or Soviet leader to join Polish officials in commemorating the massacre’s anniversary. He was joined there by Mr. Tusk.
Mr. Kaczynski, seen by the Kremlin as less friendly to Russia, was not invited. Instead, he decided to attend a separate, Polish-organized event on Saturday.
There was alot of discussion here on what would happen to Poland several years ago. So, here we are. The wolves are taking up their postions to devour the remains. Poland has been trying to have things both ways in many respects - remaining in an independent state while trying to keep the East and West balanced and placated.
This is, in many ways, a repeat of the Hitler-Stalin agreement and the subsequent dividing that took place. What were Obama and Medvedev really shaking hands on about a week ago? And now Putin and Tusk?? The fake 'cold war' scenario is back in play.
The difference now is that it's not through overt military conquest but financial and economic conquest that nations are being subsumed and devoured. Look for a quick acceptance of the Euro and the implosion of the economy. It's a terrible time for Poland.
hmmm sumnjivo.... I have experience flying small single propeller aircraft and I can tell u that this is very strange..... and doesn't make sense to me why he would try to land in 400m visibility
Istraga pokazala da nisu praćeni saveti kontrole letenja Šef istražnog komiteta pri Državnom tužilaštvu Rusije Aleksandar Bastrikin potvrdio je večeras da posada aviona poljskog predsednika Leha Kačinjskog nije poslušala preporuke kontrole leta da ne sleti na aerodrom u Smolensku.
"Bez obzira na preporuke ruske strane, posada aviona odlučila je da sleti, o čemu svedoči zapis razgovora", rekao je Bastrikin na mestu nesreće, na savetovanju sa premijerom Rusije Vladimirom Putinom koji je na čelu komisije za istragu.
Prema rečima Bastrikina, snimak razgovora između kontrole letenja i posade jasno pokazuje da je preporučeno da avion ne sleti na aerodrom u Smolensku.
Zbog loše vidljivosti i meteoroloških uslova, posadi je preporučeno da avion spusti na alternativne aerodrome u Minsku ili Vitebsku, rekao je predstavnik predsednika Rusije za centralni federalni okrug Georgij Poltavčenko.
"Ali, prema izjavi šefa uprave letenja, (smolenskog aerodroma), posada je odlučila da sama donese dalju odluku", naveo je on.
Ministar saobraćaja Rusije Igor Levitin naveo je da je pilot aviona samostalno doneo odluku da spusti avion, iako je vidljivost bila svega 400 metara, a propisi zahtevaju da vidljivost bude 1.000 metara.
Prema izveštajima poljskih medija i poljskog Ministarstva spoljnih poslova, piloti su četiri puta pokušavali da slete, a u poslednjem pokušaju avion je zakačio drveće i srušio se i zapalio.
Pronađene obe crne kutije Ruski ministar za vanredne situacije Sergej Šojgu rekao je da su pronađene obe crne kutije iz aviona "tupoljev" Tu-154, koji se srušio danas u zapadnoj Rusiji, a u kome je nastradao predsednik Poljske Leh Kačinjski.
"Na mestu nesreće nađene su obe kutije, koje su registrovale i podatke i glasove. Analiza kutija, koja će pokazati šta je uzrok nesreće, već je počela", rekao je Šojgu, prenosi Interfaks.
"Putanja leta poljskog aviona potvrđuje da je postojalo odstupanje od predviđenog i po visini i po širini i to najmanje 150 metara. Avion je potpuno uništen", dodao je ministar Šojgu koji se nalazi na licu mesta, preneo je Itar-tass.
Jaroslav Kačinjski u zadnjem trenutku odustao od puta Brat blizanac poljskog predsednika Leha Kačinjskog koji je poginuo jutros u tragičnoj avionskoj nesreći kraj Smolenska u poslednjem trenutku odustao je od plana da prati brata u Rusiju na pomen žrtvama masakra u Katinjskoj šum
U prvim informacijama o avionskoj nesreći u kojoj je Poljska izgubila predsednika i njegovu suprugu i deo državnog i vojnog vrha pojavila se i nepotvrđena vest da je u avionu bio i blizanac predsednika, bivši premijer Jaroslav Kačinjski.
On je međutim, u poslednjem trenutku odustao od puta, kako bi ostao sa majkom koja je već nekoliko nedelja u teškom stanju u bolnici u Varšavi a mesto u avionu prepustio je sinoć poslaniku svoje partije Pravo i Pravda Pšemislavu Goševskom.
The captain of the Polish government plane, which crashed near Smolensk on Saturday, was likely pressured by the high-ranking delegation, said Poland’s Ambassador to Sofia, Andrzej Papierz.
“The easiest thing is to put the blame on the pilot because he was in charge but I would abstain from doing that,” His Excellency said talking to Bulgarian journalists after the service in the Catholic cathedral in Sofia honoring the memory of Polish President Lech Kaczynski and the other 95 person who died in the horrific crash on their way to the Katyn Massacre remembrance ceremonies.
“I wouldn’t want to elaborate on this topic but I have traveled with such delegations many times, and I know that there is enormous pressure piling on the pilot in such cases even if the person in charge of the flight believes landing should not be attempted,” Papierz declared commenting on why the Polish pilot attempted to land at Smolensk even though he was advised by the Russian dispatchers to land in Minsk.
Papierz pointed out that a lot of people had gathered for the remembrance of the 70th year since the Katyn Massacre, and after landing at Smolensk, the VIP Polish delegation, which was led by President Kaczynski, had to travel another 15 km to the actual spot of the ceremonies. The Belorussian capital Minsk, where the plane was advised to land, is located 150 km away from the Katyn Massacre site, and the delegation probably decided that landing there would mean a huge delay.
Ambassador Papierz said he participated in the opening of the Polish military cemetery near Katyn 10 years ago, and knows the fatal airport at Smolensk where Kaczynski’s plane attempted to land.
“This is one of the many military airports, in the woods, I don’t see any fault on part of the Russians here. These are very narrow, surrounded by forests, there was a very thick fog, and this is what caused this tragedy,” Poland’s Ambassador in Sofia suggested as cited by BTA.
He said that authorities would probably be more careful in sending such large VIP delegations on one plane. In his words, the Bulgarian President travels the same way with his delegations when he visits foreign countries.
“We are not so rich as to have Air Force 1 planes, and to transport everyone individually. This is our reality. There has been much talk of buying new planes but the society is very sensitive towards such purchases; such decisions are viewed very negatively by the people, I think the situation in Bulgaria is similar. People see them as a kind of privilege, and as a result our government had two Tu-154 airplanes, and one of them crashed,” Papierz concluded.
He did stress that the specially appointed commission would have to investigate and find out what exactly happened with the plane.
“There are many personal tragedies here. The President’s mother was brought home from the hospital yesterday, she is in a very serious condition. She probably has not even been told that her son perished,” said the Polish Ambassador.
The one-week mourning in Poland for the casualties of the horrific crash started on Sunday.
Black boxes reveal two landing attempts, not four.
TVN24 13.04.2010 11:15
Contrary to initial reports, an examination of the Tu-154's black box flight recorders revealed that the crew made two, not four attempts at landing.
Three black boxes have been recovered from the wreck of the presidential plane which crashed in Smolensk on Saturday. Two flight recorders have already been examined, the third will be sent to Moscow today for examination.
“We’ve got two recorders: a voice recorder and a flight parameters recorder. The Aviation Committee in Moscow has examined them and will soon publish a report on what happened on board of the plane just before the crash,” said Col. Zbigniew Rzepa, who, along with five Russian experts, is investigating the black boxes in Moscow.
Rzepa added that the boxes are slightly damaged but only on the surface. The recordings are intact, which means that the reconstruction of pilots’ conversations with the air traffic controllers will be fairly easy.
The initial examination of the two black boxes showed that the crew had been advised not to land but ignored the warning and made two attempts to land. The flight recordings also reveal that Polish pilots, who communicated with the air traffic controllers in English and Russian, did not report any technical problems with the craft. The pilots also contacted the crew of two other planes which were in the vicinity.
Today the committee will examine the conversations recorded in the pilots’ cabin. (mg)
I wont to say Spasiba to all Russian people, for this what you do for us in this tragedy moment. We in Poland know that you are with us. We feel your support. If something in this offul tragedy can be good.. this can be that Russian and Poland are closer..
Polish Crash Inquiry Looks at Decision to Land Jet.
April 11, 2010 NyTimes.com By CLIFFORD J. LEVY
MOSCOW — Investigators examining the crash of the Polish president’s plane appeared Sunday to be focusing on why the pilot did not heed instructions from air traffic controllers to give up trying to land in bad weather in western Russia.
Their inquiry may lead to an even more delicate question: whether the pilot felt under pressure to land to make sure that the Polish delegation would not be late for a ceremony on Saturday in the Katyn forest, where more than 20,000 Polish officers and others were massacred by the Soviets during World War II.
Officials have recovered the flight voice recorder, but on Sunday they did not release transcripts of conversations in the cockpit or the control tower. Still, attention has been drawn to the pilot’s state of mind because of a previous incident involving the Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, who died along with numerous other senior Polish government and military officials in the crash.
In August 2008, during Russia’s brief war with Georgia, Mr. Kaczynski got into a dispute with a pilot flying his plane to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, according to reports at the time. Mr. Kaczynski demanded that the pilot land despite dangerous conditions, but the pilot disagreed and diverted to neighboring Azerbaijan.
Mr. Kaczynski threatened that there would be consequences for the pilot, the Polish newspaper Dziennik reported. “If someone decides to become a pilot, he cannot be fearful,” Mr. Kaczynski said. “After returning to the country, we shall deal with this matter.”
That pilot was not disciplined and received a medal for his service. But the defense minister later said that the pilot had suffered depression in the wake of the incident.
Lech Walesa, the former Polish president, told the newspaper Gazeta Wyborcza over the weekend that in these situations, the captain often sought the views of the government leaders on the plane.
“If there were any doubts, the leaders were always approached and asked for their decision, and only on this basis were further steps taken,” he said. “Sometimes the plane captain would make the decision himself, even against the recommendations. We do not yet know what happened, so let’s leave the explaining to the experts.”
Officials from both Russia and Poland were taking part in the inquiry into the crash, which killed 96 people, and they said preliminary evidence seemed to indicate that there were no technical malfunctions on the plane, though it was a 20-year-old, Soviet-designed Tupolev.
Prosecutors, forensic pathologists and crash investigators were working in Moscow and at the crash site in the city of Smolensk.
Throughout the weekend, the Russian government seemed to go out of its way to demonstrate its despair over the crash and its determination to conduct a wide-ranging inquiry, efforts that were well-received in Poland. The two countries have long had an uneasy relationship, though it has improved recently.
Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin of Russia went to Smolensk on Sunday for a ceremony to return Mr. Kaczynski’s body to Poland. Russian soldiers wearing red and black armbands carried his coffin, while a band played the Polish and Russian national anthems.
Mr. Putin and the Polish ambassador to Russia laid bouquets of red flowers beside the coffin as the red and white Polish flag covering it fluttered in the breeze. A Polish military honor guard carried the coffin onto the military plane back.
In Smolensk, Mr. Putin also held a meeting with top Russian public safety and law-enforcement officials that was broadcast on national television in Russia.
Aleksandr I. Bastrykin, chief of the prosecutor general’s investigation committee in Russia, told Mr. Putin that a preliminary examination suggested pilot error was to blame. “The pilot was informed of severe weather conditions, but nonetheless made a decision to land,” Mr. Bastrykin said.
Russian officials said Saturday that traffic controllers had several times told the plane not to land because of heavy fog, warned that it was descending too low and recommended that it go to another airport.
On Sunday, a Russian news service, Lifenews.ru, published an interview with an official who was identified as an air traffic controller at the airport. The controller said the pilot, after trying several times to land, indicated that he wanted to try once more.
“He said that if he did not land, then he would go to an alternate airport,” the controller said.
The traffic controller said that at that point, the pilot was asked for the plane’s altitude, but stopped responding to communication from the traffic control tower.
Mark V. Rosenker, a former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board in the United States and a retired Air Force major general, said the fact that the plane made several attempts to land indicated that “these guys were truly wanting to complete this mission at all cost.”
Mr. Rosenker was the head of the White House Military Office during the administration of President George W. Bush, and was thus responsible for the president’s transportation.
He said Sunday that the Polish pilot could have followed the air traffic controller’s warnings. But if he chose to do so, “He’s going to have to explain to somebody if he’s going to land somewhere else.”
And that could be difficult, Mr. Rosenker said.
Michal Piotrowski contributed reporting from Warsaw, and Matthew L. Wald from Washington.
Serbia to mourn Polish officials killed in crash 0 Comments Published: April 13, 2010 BELGRADE, Serbia (AP) — Serbia has declared a day of mourning for late Polish President Lech Kaczynski and dozens of dignitaries killed in a plane crash over the weekend. The government says in a statement released Tuesday that the day of mourning will be observed on Thursday throughout the Balkan republic. Kaczynski, his wife and dozens of Polish political, military and religious leaders died Saturday when their plane went down while trying to land in dense fog at Smolensk in western Russia. Altogether 96 people died in the crash.
Serbia to mourn Polish officials killed in crash Published: April 13, 2010 BELGRADE, Serbia (AP) — Serbia has declared a day of mourning for late Polish President Lech Kaczynski and dozens of dignitaries killed in a plane crash over the weekend.
Serbia should mourn the loss of part of their country, Kosovo, by the devils in the EU and Nato includimg Poland which allowed the campaign of murder of the Serbia people and state in 1999 from their soil. If Serbia does not now see what joining the EU will get them, they might as well dig their graves now and crawl in.
imgur.com/a/IsoPl Kozacke Riesenie ak chceme prevziat vladu musime dat narodu ,viacej nez sluby.Musime im dat zaruku ze nasa vlada nebude ovladat ludi,ale ze bude sluzit narodu.Tato zaruka bude
Nov 28, 2019 11:30:45 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: A guy keeps spamming casino links every day, I have to ban him constantly, I wonder what his post count would be otherwise, approaching mine?
Jan 10, 2020 14:27:01 GMT -5
Borrka: Anybody here? Where are the old regulars!?
Mar 15, 2020 10:48:19 GMT -5
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Apr 19, 2020 4:29:09 GMT -5
gioblack94: Hello,I'm the representative of the Bulgarians and the main coordinator of Bulgaria of a movement called:"The slavic movement".Our mission is to create a slavic union and we welcome everybody who wants to join our cause:https://discord.gg/gMh2Zm
May 18, 2020 9:10:02 GMT -5
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WC: Tsar, habe you lost interest? Kudos that you continued posting all the years.
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WC: Nikolov, wuz up?
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TheChornyvolk: Borka, I still fuck your mother.
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Raskolnikov: A thread about the racial movements currently happening in the west would be interesting. Is this forum alive enough to create a topic about it?
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Raskolnikov: And get an STD? no way
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White Cossack: WTF is going on here? That's Slavija, not Spermia.
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