I wont to say Spasiba to all Russian people, for this what you do for us in this tragedy moment. We in Poland know that you are with us. We feel your support. If something in this offul tragedy can be good.. this can be that Russian and Poland are closer..
I wont to say Spasiba to all Russian people, for this what you do for us in this tragedy moment. We in Poland know that you are with us. We feel your support. If something in this offul tragedy can be good.. this can be that Russian and Poland are closer..
Post by TsarSamuil on Apr 18, 2010 15:22:53 GMT -5
Polish and Russian investigators turn up new clues in plane crash scene.
RussiaToday.com 16 April, 2010, 17:33
As Krakow braces for Sunday’s state funeral, crash investigators are turning up new clues as to what led to last Saturday’s horrific crash that dealt a terrible blow to Poland’s government.
The Polish first couple was among the 96 passengers and crew who lost their lives in a plane crash last Saturday near the western Russian city of Smolensk. The high-level delegation was on its way to Katyn, a forested area near the Belarusian-Russian border, to pay tribute to some 20,000 Polish officers killed by the Soviet secret police during World War II.
The crash sent shockwaves of grief around the world, and was powerful enough to bring out some soul-searching between Poland and Russia, two countries that have a lengthy history of animosity between them. The Polish people were especially touched when they saw footage of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin console his Polish counterpart, Donald Tusk, with an embrace as the two men met at the crash site.
One high-ranking Polish politician said that it was inappropriate to dub the fatal plane crash a “Second Katyn,” while suggesting that the tragedy may help mend strained Polish-Russian relations.
“Though [the plane crash] was initially called a ‘Second Katyn’, it is quite another matter. The Communist state killed our officers and drove a wedge between us which we are still struggling to overcome. The recent tragedy, on the contrary, brought our states and peoples together,” Marshal of the Senate Bogdan Borusewicz told the TVN24 channel.
Borusewicz said that those who think that relations between the two states will worsen are in a minority.
“Russians have changed a great deal,” he said, praising the Russian reaction to the disaster.
Investigators examine black boxes
Meanwhile, as Poland and the international community prepares to pay its final respects to Kaczynski and his wife, investigators are slowly piecing together the tragic final moments before Poland’s presidential Tu-154 crashed in a wooded area just short of the runway.
Contrary to original reports, the chairperson of the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) said on Thursday that the presidential aircraft made just one attempt to land before crashing.
“Media reports that the Polish plane made three or four attempts to land are false. I can say that there was only one landing attempt,” Tatyana Anodina said. The IAC also confirmed on Friday that the aircraft sheared a line of trees about one kilometer away from the start of the runway.
“We have established that the plane had first contact with trees about 1,050 meters from the runway and about 40-45 meters to the left of the final approach line,” the IAC said in its latest report on the crash investigation. “The plane hit another tree with its left wing after 200 meters and rolled sharply to the left.”
“Most of the fragments of the plane are scattered around an area about 350-500 meters away and 150 meters to the left of the runway,” the IAC report continues. "At the moment all aircraft fragments, personal belongings, documents, valuables and other items of interest to the investigation have been removed from the site of the crash," Vladimir Markin said, adding that investigators are continuing their work in Smolensk and Moscow.
Anodina said Russian and Polish investigators were cooperating to determine what caused last Saturday’s tragedy, which led to the death of many of Poland’s top political, military and business elite.
“Work is in progress. It is scrupulous and being carried out in full cooperation with the Polish side,” the chairwoman told RIA Novosti. “When it is over, the commission will make the results public.”
Meanwhile, early reports suggest that the president and other VIPs aboard did not pressure the pilots to land “no matter what” – despite the poor visibility and safety concerns.
Interfax on Thursday quoted an anonymous source in the panel of experts that pilot error was the likely culprit in Saturday’s crash.
“The panel's analysis, namely data from the black boxes, shows that it was pilot's mistake that caused the crash,” the source said, adding that the pilots were aware of their situation before the crash, saying that the final moments of conversation between the pilots were “dramatic.”
Russian and Polish specialists are jointly investigating the causes of the deadly crash. Polish military prosecutors, however, have opened their own investigation into the accident.
Meanwhile, the painstaking process of identifying the bodies from the crash continues. Already, 74 victims have been identified, a source in the Moscow center for assisting relatives of the victims told Interfax.
“Identification procedures will continue on Friday. A plane carrying 34 sealed coffins with victims' remains flew from [Moscow’s] Domodedovo airport to Warsaw at 16:25 on Thursday,” the source said.
Finally, as if Poland does not have enough to think about, meteorologists are keeping their eye on a massive ash cloud, spewed out by a volcano in Iceland that has halted flights across Europe for two consecutive days. Flights across much of Europe are expected to be severely disrupted well into Saturday because of the drifting ash, officials said. Much of the airspace across northern and western Europe has been shut down, and flight control officials said some 17,000 flights would be cancelled on Friday.
Poland's PAP news agency reported Thursday evening that the Polish Air Navigation Services Agency prohibited flights over part of the country until further notice. Flights in and out of Gdansk airport were canceled.
However, Polish TVN24 channel on Friday said the country's authorities had no plans to postpone the ceremony.
The aircraft with 96 people onboard crashed on April 10 when it attempted to land in thick fog near the Russian city of Smolensk.
According to the head of the investigative commission, Edmund Klich, it was pilot Arkadiusz Protasiuk’s decision that led to the death of the country's president and 95 others.
“The pilots ignored the plane's automatic warnings and attempted an incredibly risky landing,” Klich said.
Meanwhile there is evidence people other than the crew were in the cockpit before disaster struck.
Top Russian pilot Magomet Talboev is furious his dead Polish colleagues are being scapegoated after the revelation that the commander of Poland's air force was in the cockpit before the accident.
“I've been in the same situation myself. Only I had the strength to say to the prime minister of Russia: ‘I'm going to land now, you can walk the rest of the way yourself.’ May it be a lesson. Even if you're the president, stay in your place and do your own work. And we'll do ours. When the head of Poland's air force is standing behind you, and you're his subordinate, how can you react at the controls?” Talboev told RT.
Poland's defense minister, Bogdan Klich, now wants an end to the conspiracy theories surrounding the crash.
“We hope to show all the investigation's sources to people, and end this wave of speculation and doubt,” Klich said.
The investigator added that it remains for psychologists to work out how much stress the pilot was under by having his boss behind him.
People in Poland have been waiting for answers about the death of their leaders. It's taken more than a month for officials to establish the facts.
Alan Heath, a writer and publisher living in Poland, said the Poles appreciate Russia's response to the plane crash.
“I think the attitude that was shown, particularly from Mr. Medvedev and Mr. Putin, really showed that Russia was prepared to go a long way to try and get the truth of the matter to put Polish fears to rest and try to resolve other matters at the same time,” Heath said. “I think it’s pretty clear to everybody that Russia really has done whatever it could to [make sure] the truth came out.”
“I do believe that the results of this investigation are positive, both legally and politically,” said Leonid Syukiyaynen, political analyst from the Russian Academy of Sciences. “Legally, it is very important to stress the unanimous position of the Polish and Russian sides, as far as the results of the investigation are concerned. As for the political side of the problem, it is very important to stress the positive development in the relationship between the two countries after this event.”
However, Piotr Kaczynski from the Center for European Policy Studies believes it is too early to predict what political conclusions, if any, can be drawn from the findings.
“It is good that the investigation is proceeding and there are new findings and some conclusions drawn from that. That is very positive,” Kaczynski said. “But I would not draw any major political conclusions from that finding as of today.”
Post by TsarSamuil on May 30, 2010 20:27:23 GMT -5
Poland to get copies of data recorders from crashed presidential plane.
Russia will on Monday give Poland the flight data recorders of the Polish presidential plane that crashed in western Russia more than six weeks ago, a spokesman for Russia's Deputy Premier Sergei Ivanov said.
The Polish government Tu-154 crashed near Smolensk on the morning on April 10. All 96 people on board died, including President Lech Kaczynski, his wife and a host of senior Polish officials. They had been due to attend a memorial ceremony for the victims of the 1940 Katyn massacre in which Soviet secret police killed thousands of Polish military officers.
"The copies of flight recorders from the Polish presidential plane will be handed over. Russia's head of Interstate Aviation Committee Tatyana Anodina and [Deputy Prime Minister] Sergei Ivanov will take part in the ceremony," the spokesman said.
He added that representatives from the Russian and Polish Prosecutor General's Offices would attend to verify the authenticity of the copies.
Anodina said earlier that the black boxes themselves must remain with the Interstate Aviation Committee until the end of the investigation.
Russian and Polish investigators and experts are jointly investigating the causes of the crash. Polish military prosecutors are also conducting their own separate investigation.
Transcripts of black box recordings of the last minutes of the TU 154 which crashed in Smolensk on April 10 have been released by Poland’s government.
The transcripts, which can be accessed here (pdf) were taken from materials collected by Interior Minister Jerzy Miller, who was in Moscow on Monday.
The decision to release the recordings and transcripts of the moments just before 96 died in the Smolensk crash was taken after a meeting of the National Security Council on Tuesday.
The 40-page document contains conversations between pilots and air traffic control and the times when they occurred, given in both Russian and Polish.
Some of the conversations were in Polish, some in English - air traffic control can be heard saying “pull up, pull up,” seconds before the plane hit the top of trees and crashed into forest near the Smolensk air strip at precisely 10.41, Russian time, on Saturday, April 10.
Pilots are then heard swearing and cursing in Polish as their fate becomes clear.
The swearing occurred in the six seconds between the plane hitting the tree and it crashing.
It is obvious from the transcripts that the pilots were very concerned about poor visibility, caused by heavy fog. Fifteen minutes before the crash, a voice, identified as Mariusz Kazana, Poland’s Director of Diplomatic Protocol who was in the cabin at the time, asks about possibilities to land. The pilot answers that "at this moment, in such conditions, we won’t be ready to land.”
After a while the pilot says that they would make one landing attempt, but that they “probably won’t make it”.
After the pilots started the landing manoeuvre they, calmly, exchanged information on flight parameters and height and received messages from air traffic control centre about altitude.
Fifteen seconds before the crash the co-pilot says that the crew should abandon the landing attempt, but his remark is ignored and the landing attempt continued.
At this time, flight control twice issued the command “Horizon”, which means that pilots must abort landing immediately.
A few seconds later the sound of the plane hitting a tree is heard, followed by the cry of the co-pilot and air traffic controller.
At 10.41.05 the black boxes stopped recording sounds from the cockpit. (pg/mg)
A Russian government newspaper is accusing Poland of breaking agreements concluded in Moscow on the publication of the black box transcripts of the TU 154.
According to the government-backed daily Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Warsaw and Moscow had agreed not to publish the transcripts of the last moments of the plane which crashed in Smolensk on April 10 until the end of the official investigation.
The paper says the decision to release the last 40 minutes of conversation between the crew, air traffic control and others in the cabin may be a result of the presidential election campaign, writes the daily, adding that it may indeed have an effect on the electorate.
Izviestia adds that each page of the transcript has the words ‘not subject to publication’, but despite this Polish authorities decided that the investigation will not suffer from making the transcripts public.
Not a complete picture
Meanwhile, Poland’s Interior Minister Jerzy Miller said he expects more documents and evidence from Moscow concerning the TU 154 crash. The minister pointed that more details of the catastrophe will be revealed after experts wind up reading the flight registrations which he had brought from Moscow on Monday.
The interior minister underlined that the transcripts, published on Tuesday, do not present the complete picture of who was present in the cockpit and the causes of the crash which killed all 96 on board. Several names had been assigned to certain voices but this is only hypothetical and until all the conversations are deciphered it has to remain that way.
“No one has officially recognised the voice attributed to director of the protocol Mariusz Kazana. So we are still in the sphere of hypothesis and not facts,” he said. (ab/pg)
Smolensk TU 154 - who decided to leave behind Russian navigator?
IAR 03.09.2010 07:12
At a press conference outlining the progress of the investigation into the TU 154 which crashed in April killing President Kaczynski and 95 others, the military prosecutor has said that it was decided by the government not to take a Russian navigator on board the doomed flight.
Prosecutor Ireneusz Szelag told journalists that the decision not to include a Russian navigator as part of the plane’s crew was taken by the Defence Ministry. The Military Prosecutor’s Office, which has a document confirming that the decision was indeed taken by the ministry, is investigating who was personally responsible for that decision.
The plane hit the top of trees on the morning of April 10 when attempting to land in heavy fog and low cloud.
As many as 290 people have already given testimony to military prosecutors, who are currently investigating events before the plane took off, particularly looking at repair work done to the TU-154, carried out in the Russian city of Samara.
Prosecutor Szelag also confirmed that all files received from the Russian Prosecutor’s Office in Moscow have now been translated into Polish, including the testimony of a journalist who claimed that he saw employees of the Severny airport near Smolensk changing light bulbs on runway beacons after the crash.
Prosecutors say they have also received important evidence from investigators in Warsaw looking at the contents of the black boxes and other electronic data.
Poland’s Internal Security Agency has collected 21 photographs taken by TU-154 passengers before the crash. Some of the photos were taken inside the plane which may help establish where the passengers were seated. This will help determine who was sitting where as no seating plan was prepared by the crew of the presidential plane.
The Prosecutor’s Office also has a video, belonging to a TV crew, of a recording from the pilot’s cabin. Though recorded before 10 April it may help identify voices of the plane crew.
Asked whether Moscow is cooperating with the investigation, Polish prosecutors assure that the cooperation with the Russian investigators is going smoothly. (mg)
Post by TsarSamuil on Sept 22, 2010 14:55:03 GMT -5
Poland 'dissatisfied' with Russian documents on Smolensk plane crash.
Polish experts working in Moscow on a probe into the plane crash that killed the Polish president and 95 others near Smolensk in April are "dissatisfied" with the documents supplied by the Russia side, Poland's TVN24 channel said on Wednesday.
"I'm leaving with the feeling of dissatisfaction. Many things [in the documents] that we wanted to know are missing," leading expert Edmund Klich said.
The experts have submitted their complaints to the Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK). Most of them concern a lack of technical details about the Severny airport in Smolensk.
MAK has not yet commented on the complaints.
The worn-out Tu-154 that crashed while carrying Lech Kaczynski and other senior Polish officials was on its way to a commemoration ceremony of the 1940 Katyn massacre of more than 20,000 Poles by Soviet forces near Smolensk.
Russia-Poland ties have warmed on the back of Moscow's gentle handling of the aftermath the tragedy, but were strained again last week after Poland refused to extradite exile Chechen separatist leader Akhmed Zakayev, who came to Warsaw for a Chechen congress.
Polish experts in Moscow probing the plane crash that killed the Polish president and 95 others near Smolensk in April said on Wednesday they were "dissatisfied" with the documents supplied by Russia.
In an interview with Polish Radio, Kaczynski criticized the Polish government for being "ineffective and weak" with Russia over the investigation into the death of his twin brother, President Lech Kaczynski.
"The Russian or Polish governments...should take moral responsibility for the Smolensk air disaster," he said.
"The government should have turned [the investigation] into an international issue. Instead, it does not do anything and pretends that relations between Poland and Russia are continuing to improve," Kaczynski said.
It will be difficult to establish the truth about the causes of the April 10 air crash, he added.
"The Polish Prosecutor's Office has to rely on what it receives from Russian investigators," Kaczynski said.
The Polish Tu-154 pilots cannot be blamed for the crash, he went on.
"The pilots must have been misled. I absolutely disagree with the idea that someone put pressure on them. I knew my brother and he would not have given an order to land if it was dangerous," Kaczynski said.
The Tu-154 crashed while carrying Lech Kaczynski and other senior Polish officials to a commemoration ceremony for the 1940 Katyn massacre of more than 20,000 Poles by Soviet forces near Smolensk.
MOSCOW, September 23 (RIA Novosti)
"SURRENDER LIFE TO MOTHERLAND, SOUL TO GOD, AND HONOUR TO NOBODY!"
Russia Arrests Polish Journalists at Smolensk Air Crash Site.
Novinite.com World | October 2, 2010, Saturday
The Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs informs Saturday three Polish journalists have been arrested in Russia, at the site of the Smolensk plane crash.
The reporters were detained Friday by Russian soldiers because on two occasions they entered the “no trespassing zone,” guarded by the Russian army.
The Polish citizens wanted to take pictures of the remains of the aircraft.
A representative of the Polish Embassy in Moscow made statements the case is “very serious.”
Polish President Lech Kaczynski, his wife Maria and much of the political and military elite of the country died on April 10 on their way to pay tribute to the victims of the Katyn Massacre and take part in remembrance ceremonies. All 94 passengers and crew were killed.
The crash of a Polish presidential plane in Western Russia this April was caused by 12 factors, the country's envoy to the Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) said.
In October, Edmund Klich received a technical report from the IAC on the crash near the Russian city of Smolensk, in which then Polish president Lech Kaczynski and other 95 people died. Poland hopes to make the report public in January.
"Not one, but 12 factors led to the plane crash. The number of mistakes and violations during preparations and the flight itself is terrifying," Klich said in an interview with the Rzeczpospolita newspaper.
He said the weather was too bad and the crew had no chance to land safely.
"Even if the plane had touched the runway, it would have crash-landed, though, of course, there would be fewer casualties in this case," he said.
The Polish investigator said a "man in charge of Polish military aviation" attempted to pressurize him into blaming Russia for the crash.
The worn-out Tu-154 with a top-level Polish delegation crashed after hitting trees in thick fog on April 10, killing 88 passengers and eight crew members. The delegation was on its way to a commemoration ceremony of the 1940 Katyn massacre, in which more than 20,000 Poles were executed by Soviet forces.
Post by TsarSamuil on Dec 18, 2010 14:26:11 GMT -5
Russian media attacks Smolensk report.
Thenews.pl 18.12.2010 12:50
“Catastrophe returns to Russia,” headlines an article in the Kommersant daily, commenting on an apparent botch-job of the Interstate Aviation Committee concerning the drafting of the report into the Smolensk tragedy in April 2010.
The comment comes after Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said that the Russian version of the report is “unacceptable,” with Poland having sent back its own 148-page opinion on the Interstate Aviation Committee’s findings.
The Kommersant daily writes that the investigation into the presidential plane crash has ended in “international scandal”, following the Polish Prime Minister’s claims that some of the verdicts proclaimed by the Russians are not in line with Polish findings as well as the Chicago Convention.
“It seems that the Interstate Aviation Committee’s report may have to be started from scratch,” Kommersant suggests, adding that after Tusk’s statement, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and PM Vladimir Putin will almost surely have to see the text for themselves.
The Polish opinions of the Russian-led Interstate Aviation Committee’s report into the Smolensk catastrophe arrived in Moscow by diplomatic bag, Friday. The deadline for submitting the documents was 19 December, in accordance with the Chicago Convention.
The 148-page document is in Polish, with a Russian translation provided. However, if there is some confusion as to the Russian translation’s interprestation, the Polish version is to be binding.
The Interstate Aviation Committee is now billed to take the Polish findings into account before the release of the final report, although regulations do not stipulate when it will be released. (jb)
TsarSamuil: Medicines aren't allowed to be sold on the market without a 15 year trial period, to determine short n long term effects. Sputnik just turned 1 year, others not even that, just months, how can we determine long term effects without the data from long term
Aug 24, 2021 11:22:20 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: exposure? Does anyone have a time machine to go 14 years or so into the future n come back n say whether we have good vaccines? Fear makes world abandon its own standards..Besides, vaccines for other illnesses that have been developed for YEARS actually
Aug 24, 2021 11:23:40 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: help. These covid vaccines are literally SHIT, why else do they demand you take 1, 2 n now 3 shots? The problem is also a disease becomes resilient if u administer a weak vaccine that doesn't do the job proper. Allow illness to survive just makes it strong
Aug 24, 2021 11:25:04 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: instead if we go by the book, we should all wait for a really good vaccine to take out the illness for good. Now...we may never get rid of it..but understandably the world economy has a hard time dealing with lock downs, but that is just needless panic
Aug 24, 2021 11:27:06 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: why Swe had fared well with country not being locked down? Because they are cold people, keeping distance was the thing before covid-19 was ever heard of, I hope world doesn't become like that, but some could use a little common sense n change in behavior.
Aug 24, 2021 11:29:12 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: It's no wonder covid hits so many Arabs in the country, stupid bastards..
Aug 24, 2021 11:29:38 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: If I go to H&M a new shirt, if an Arab wants to buy a pair of pants, not only is his whole family along, his friends, even his freaking grandmother is along n all chattering along in a big dumb group of ignorance..
Aug 24, 2021 11:33:05 GMT -5
Boro: Thx for the response. I'm not sure... It seems the vaccines work, at least people aren't dying of Covid. Those who get ill have a problem, it's not "just a flu". Maybe it's from a chinese laboratory, who knows...
Aug 24, 2021 13:46:55 GMT -5
Boro: I agree regarding Arabs..
Aug 24, 2021 13:50:39 GMT -5
Boro: Be glad, Sweden isn't overpopulated.
Aug 24, 2021 14:11:49 GMT -5
TsarSamuil: true, vaccines do help somewhat, maybe better than nothing..I hope in 2022 we can come out of this nightmare..
Aug 24, 2021 15:38:24 GMT -5
Boro: Horrible times, indeed.
Aug 24, 2021 15:47:41 GMT -5
Boro: Got the first Biontech... Hope it won't kill me.
Nov 1, 2021 9:48:00 GMT -5
Slavislav: Hello, fellows. I see that this museum of a forum is sadly abandoned and I wish you join our community and discuss with us things related to slavs and etc.
Nov 11, 2021 7:43:15 GMT -5
Brat: Don't follow the link. You'll get infected.
Nov 11, 2021 16:26:55 GMT -5