Breakup of Yu 90s, situation today & Bosnia.

[balkannj]

This is from a Croatian news site. I'm surprised at the very large number of Bosniaks involved in Croatia's war. I knew the Bosnian Muslims were training and fighting in Croatia, and believed it was several thousands, but not 25 thousand. I estimated more like 8,000 - 10,000 (with thousands more training for and during the Bosnian war within Croatia, but not fighting in Croatia).

Did you guys know about this and, if so, what numbers of Bosnian Muslims did you believe took part in Croatia's war?

______________________________________

vijesti.hrt.hr/ShowArticles.aspx?ArticleId=27395

Memorial to be built for Muslim defenders

Zagreb Mayor Milan Bandic and Mufti Sevko Omerbasic laid foundations for the building of a memorial outside the Zagreb Mosque in tribute to the fallen defenders of Muslim ethnicity. On the occasion the two officials recalled all Bosniaks who took Croatia’s side in 1991. There were almost 25,000 Bosniaks under arms, most of them citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Many of them still have not been granted Croatian citizenship, 1,100 were killed and as many were wounded, including 150 disabled.

[Poruchik]

balkannj said:

I'm surprised at the very large number of Bosniaks involved in Croatia's war.

If you weren’t so stupid you wouldn’t be that surprised. Obviously the Bosnians feel Croatia closer than Serbia...

[stefan]

poruchik said:

balkannj said:

I'm surprised at the very large number of Bosniaks involved in Croatia's war.

If you weren’t so stupid you wouldn’t be that surprised. Obviously the Bosnians feel Croatia closer than Serbia...

If u ever meet a Bosnian Muslim from Bosnia you would know that they find the Cristian Croats and the Serbs the same they like the "Croatian flowers" (which smell pretty fing bad) a certain group of Croats assimilated with the Muslims. Dont insult other members who done noting to provoke on one u ignorant uncle fu*er

[balkannj]

I see it more as negating the fact that the Bosnian Muslims were unprepared for the Bosnian war and just civilians protecting their homes with old rifles.

The Bosnian Muslim men had done their service in the JNA like all other of the former Yugoslavia, and many, 25,000, had war experience in Croatia.

If the Bosnian Muslims numbered 25,000 in Croatia, then the Croats would have to be several times this, which means the fighting forces were enormous in Croatia.

Propagandist try to claim such a small number of Croats were fighting in this or that town, but they had the largest numbers.

There were some Bosnian Muslims friendly or neutral towards Serbs, but they fought in their own land - Bosnia. One example was Fikret Abdic and his followers in northwest Bosnia who were allies with the Serbs. They fell to the Bosnian Muslim 5th Corps after the Serbian Krajina collapsed, as the Serbs were giving support to them.

I also heard from an ethnic Russian American who served in SFOR with the U.S. that Muslims south of Brcko were aligned with the Serbs throughout the war.

[negoslavac]

That was a problem in Bosnia.
In some areas Croats and Muslims fought together against Serbs, in some areas Serbs and Muslims against Croats, in some areas Serbs and Croats against Muslims.

And now win such a war...

[SerdarVukota]

poruchik said:

If you weren’t so stupid you wouldn’t be that surprised. Obviously the Bosnians feel Croatia closer than Serbia...

There is a conman denominator here, you had the same master - Hitler.

[negoslavac]

serdarvukota said:

There is a conman denominator here, you had the same master - Hitler.

And we all (Serbs, Croats, Bosnjaks) had the same master - Tito.

[Orao]

crvenazvezda said:

balkannj said:

I see it more as negating the fact that the Bosnian Muslims were unprepared for the Bosnian war and just civilians protecting their homes with old rifles.

The Bosnian Muslim men had done their service in the JNA like all other of the former Yugoslavia, and many, 25,000, had war experience in Croatia.

If the Bosnian Muslims numbered 25,000 in Croatia, then the Croats would have to be several times this, which means the fighting forces were enormous in Croatia.

Propagandist try to claim such a small number of Croats were fighting in this or that town, but they had the largest numbers.

There were some Bosnian Muslims friendly or neutral towards Serbs, but they fought in their own land - Bosnia. One example was Fikret Abdic and his followers in northwest Bosnia who were allies with the Serbs. They fell to the Bosnian Muslim 5th Corps after the Serbian Krajina collapsed, as the Serbs were giving support to them.

I also heard from an ethnic Russian American who served in SFOR with the U.S. that Muslims south of Brcko were aligned with the Serbs throughout the war.

To claim people were unprepared for war is idiotic. Given that the first signs of coflict began in 1990 -- the so-called log revolution by Krajina Serbs. The simple fact is that in Yugoslavia there wasn't 1 army but 7 -- the federal army for the country and the Republican militias/territorical defense forces (which were in many ways autonomous/independent of the federal army). Actual combat/war started around late spring 1991 that gave nearly a year for people to prepare. Same with Bosnia, violent incidences occured in 1991 (around the time of the war in croatia), which gave people time to prepare for the all out war that occured in 1992. Not only that but most Yugoslavs served in the army adnd had extensive training.

I think the number of Bosniaks claimed is an exagerration. The claim of 25,000 was first claimed in 92 or 93 by a pro-Croat Muslim party formed by Bosniaks in Croatia to oppose the SDA in Croatia. Thy never gave evidence to back such a claim. Not only that but I remember reading before about a Bosniak who stated in Sarajevo media that he thought for Croatia because Croatian nationalist threatened to send him back into bosnia or kill him unless he showed loyality to Croatia.

Yes. You are right about some Bosnian Muslims were pro-Serb. Like Fikret Abdic and his supporters (although this is debatable), there were muslims in Bosnia who thought for Serbia in Brcko ad other places in the north (there actually was a unit called the Mesa Selimovic brigade whose members were all muslim).

This time period and the beginnings of the war are very controversial and all three sides have different opinions and accounts of it.
For the Serbs the start of the war in Bosnia is marked by the shooting of Nikola Gardovic at a wedding in Sarajevo in early 1992. For Bosniaks it is April 6th, when SDS loyals shot into a crowd protesting on the streets of Sarajevo.
But for most of Bosnia the war or actual combat, started in the spring of 1992. In our town it was May of '92. But before that there was an incident in the village of Sijekovac by Bosanski Brod (northern Bosnia) where Muslim and Croat forces attacked the village and killed about 50-60 Serb civilians. These sporadic attacks helped to ignite the whole situation... but most of us still thought it would not turn into all out war.

[Vladimir]

I've noticed that many of our Slavic bothers and sisters don't seem to understand the difference between these two terms, so I decided to make it clear for them so they wouldn't get confused anymore.

A Bosnian is anyone from Bosnia, regardless of ethnic affinity ( be it Serbian, Croatian or Bosnian Muslim) and religion ( orthodox and roman catholic Christian or Muslim).

Bosniak on the other hand, although used for very long time as a synonym of Bosnian, became a term which Bosnian Muslims started to identify with in order to homogenize the territory of Bosnia under their rule and deny the right of other ethnic communities to claim Bosnia as their own historical land.

[pastir]

Indeed. And it is often silly when Bosnian is used for someone who is actually Herzegovian.

[Deleted]

I agree with both.

[ceskybojovnik1938]

Thankyou for the info Vladimir. I dont know alot about the former Yugoslav republics so any info you have is usefull.

[Orao]

Yup. Likewise anyone who is from Serbia is Serbian (Srbijanac/ka) and Serbs are the ethnic group... and so on.

[CHORNYVOLK]

Bosnian Serbs Seek Independence, Like Kosovo
February 18, 2008
AFP

BANJA LUKA, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AFP)--The main opposition Bosnian Serb party called Monday for the independence of the Serb-run half of Bosnia, citing Kosovo as a precedent.

"The Serb Democratic Party is demanding Republika Srpska's institutions provide (Bosnian Serbs) the same rights being given to Kosovo Albanians," said the party, which was founded by war crimes fugitive Radovan Karadzic.

"We expect the (Bosnian Serb) government to meet previous promises and check the will of Republika Srpska citizens in a referendum," the SDS said in a statement.

Since its 1992-95 war, Bosnia has consisted of two entities, the Serb-run Republika Srpska and the Muslim-Croat Federation, each with their own government, parliament and police force.

The SDS was established in the early 1990s by Karadzic, who remains at large around 12 years after the U.N. war crimes tribunal charged him with genocide over the Srebrenica massacre and siege of Sarajevo.

Many Bosnian Serbs feel that their entity should follow Kosovo's lead and be allowed to secede from Bosnia to be attached eventually to Serbia which they see as their motherland.

Some local politicians have hinted that the RS could try such a move.

Meanwhile, up to 3,000 Bosnian Serbs gathered in Banja Luka to protest against Kosovo's independence.

"Europe shame on you, world shame on you" and "Hashim murderer", the protestors chanted in a reference to Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci. They also chanted offensive slogans using derogatory terms for Albanians.

The protest, organized by students, started with a minute's silence, followed by another minute of hissing to voice disagreement with Kosovo's unilateral move.

"We are disappointed with the fate of (Serbian) people in Kosovo and we will continue to support them," a representative of the students, Dejan Kragulj, told journalists.

Students are to join their colleagues in the ethnically divided northern Kosovo town of Mitrovica at a protest rally to be held there in mid-March, he added.

"It's clear that Republika Srpska now has the right to secede from Bosnia," Zeljko, 23-year-old student, told AFP.

"Europe respect international law," "Kosovo = RS," "We don't give up Kosovo," read some of the banners carried by the protestors who also burned a Bosnian flag.


www.serbianna.com/news/2008/01398.shtml

[Deleted]

I hope Dodik will act sane and agree with SDS.