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Post by Dushko on Aug 25, 2010 20:54:36 GMT -5
I am curious if any of you living in Serbia or surrounding territories have personal accounts of the criminal attacks on your country by Nato?
I am particularly interested in Nato losses in aircraft that you know of either by witnessing it or from credible sources such as relatives, friends, etc.
I am also curious if anyone you know was injured or killed.
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Post by Dushko on Sept 13, 2010 19:51:16 GMT -5
There is an article in Airforces Monthly Magazine about Serbian air defenses during the 1999 Nato Nazi bombing of Serbia. It says there were 2 confirmed kills on Serbian soil, an F-117 and an F-16. Possible others downed in Bosnia.
Surely, somebody must know something?
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Post by TsarSamuil on Sept 15, 2010 22:17:05 GMT -5
I guess there are many stories collected in books about the subject.
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Post by Dushko on Sept 16, 2010 0:44:02 GMT -5
I guess there are many stories collected in books about the subject. None that I have found. Usually stuff on the internet only, sometimes in short stories in magazines like the above. A guy nicknamed Venik had an extensive site with a lot of info on this topic (as well as a lot of other military info), but I believe he went back to school to get a phD and dropped it. Surely some of the members of this forum have some sort of direct experience or know somebody who does, not necessarily someone in Serbia itself. Anybody?  |
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Post by TsarSamuil on Sept 16, 2010 2:09:49 GMT -5
Don't know any personal accounts.. I did my part against the Aggression, if not much (certainly not), by showing I was against it in a protest. I lived in Chicago at the time of the bombing, there's a size-able Serbian community in Chicago-land. There was a massive protest march through downtown Chicago, I took part in this. Chicago has many bridges as you probably know, the protest march was the loudest on those "STOP BOMBING BRIDGES!" echoed through downtown. Some old Macedonian couple came with a Macedonian flag, which was borrowed n placed at the forefront of the march n some other countries flag, don't recall them, I know before the march set off many Greeks showed up. I didn't tell anyone I'm Bulgarian in case a bunch of hothead 'chetniks' would gang up on me to let off some steam (I came alone after all n didn't want trouble). Anyways, at the front was this huge loud Serb, once the march came to a seedier part of downtown, he was banging on one the doors of a, uhm, 'undecent' place, "THIS IS YOU, CLINTON!" (hint, Monica Lewinsky) Besides showing a big presence in town, the march also stopped at the Chinese embassy n gave flowers, NATO bastards had used "wrong map" if u remember? Bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrad to dust... the Chinese ambassador was very grateful n accepted the flowers on behalf of his people n thanked the Serbs n the march. There ought to be personal accounts on the internet, I mean it is THE thing that set it all off, loads of Serbs n other Slavs took it to the internet n started discussing Kosovo, n then Slavs in general. Was some Polak/Irish American arguing with other Americans on some forums about the Serbs were right n how the war was also aimed at Slavs in general. Tired of all the forums I came across were American, Serbian, n what not I wanted an all-Slavic Forum, gathering place to discuss all our issues in one place, instead of spread out. I talked him into starting a forum for that goal, this is how Slavija forum first started. There was also B92, Serbian Underground Cafe (back when it was SERBIAN, not the cesspool it became later). Here I go rambling off again.. Well, you live in America, surely u can ask the Serbian community there for what u want to find out? Here is Chicago's Serb community, or at least it says so on the website, www.cikaskisrbi.com/en/index.htmlThey may even have pictures from their 1999 protest march? They do have an Youtube channel, www.youtube.com/serbtv vids are no older than 2 years, but at least u can post n ask them questions for what you want to know. Isn't there a Serbian community in Louisiana? I mentioned looking for books before, I read recently that 60% of Serb citizens (what that now means) don't use the Internet, at least that B92 claimed, or it's from TANJUG that they keep taking their news from. |
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Post by Dushko on Sept 16, 2010 18:32:10 GMT -5
Thanks for marching! You are not as bad as I thought!
You might have bumped into my father in Chicago, he marched in the protest there as well as traveling to Washington D.C. to protest at the Capitol Building and elsewhere.
In 1999 I was living in Tampa, Florida and I marched with my fellow St. George Serbian Orthodox Church parishoners in downtown St. Petersburg. We didn't have any problems, except for a jew boy who thought he knew more than us about the Nazi holocaust.
In Louisiana, there are few Serbs and no churches. I do have some relatives here I never met, but plan on it sometime soon. I unbelievably met another relative who was here temporarily after reading about her in the newspaper. She was a photographer from Sarajevo and had an exhibit at the multi-cultural center. It was like finding a needle in a haystack since my surname is rare amongst Serbs. I live in North LA, which is not Cajun, but redneck hillbilly! my brother lives in the Ft. Worth area and there is a Serb Church in Irving, next to Dallas. Mostly recent immigrants there, like my church in Clearwater, FL which had a lot of retirees from Chicago also.
Back to the point....I did find some other stuff regarding the 1999 bombings on the net, but nothing real solid, seemed to be hearsay. There apparently was other military activities, including commando raids by Nato, but info on these is rare also. Not a lot of eyewitnesses reporting.Americans are pretty fucking stupid and most gringos I spoke with supported bombing the Serbs. The same kind of people who support the mosque at ground zero, I guess.
PS - One of the local Catholic Churches near my home in Tampa brought in some Albainian muslim refugee families from Kosovo, but no fellow Christians! Yeah, muslims. I called the priest there to ask him about it and he said they were being persecuted! I printed out about of info about how the Albainian dogs were burning Christian churches and gave it to the idiot. He didn't have a clue.
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Post by TsarSamuil on Sept 16, 2010 20:06:06 GMT -5
Well, I am a good person, deep inside, I'm also very principled. Hmmm... there is little discussion going on these days it seems, as if it has slown down. Very many views on posts, but few that post. I guess most got bored of flaming, but there used to be much more discussion & posters, I guess people are lazy or bored. Thing is, this forum needs to be advertised in Slavic websites, forums, facebook (yes, I hate facebook too). There's facebook Slavic groups n such. I don't use Facebook myself though... but you can find some Serbian facebook-group to find what you are after? acounts from 1999? I was near the front of the march, u say your father was there? I have been reading lots of old threads, because I was looking for one in particular (couldn't find it, must be gone) but I came across a bit about you, that u had lived in Chicago so I started wondering if u had been at the march yourself. I can link these threads, seems that you & other Slavija posters weren't flaming each other back then like happened this past year. You got along a lot better. slavija.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=492&page=2Lol crazy LupulDacic... slavija.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=540You didn't like coming to Louisiana it seems  Americans are pretty fucking stupid and most gringos I spoke with supported bombing the Serbs. The same kind of people who support the mosque at ground zero, I guess. PS - One of the local Catholic Churches near my home in Tampa brought in some Albainian muslim refugee families from Kosovo, but no fellow Christians! Yeah, muslims. I called the priest there to ask him about it and he said they were being persecuted! I printed out about of info about how the Albainian dogs were burning Christian churches and gave it to the idiot. He didn't have a clue. Yeah, there is a lot of Slavs that have frustration over America, which is why it wasn't good of u this year to have come defending America if tempers fly. Because then u become a target for everyone to direct their frustrations on, u just have to weather opinions like that..there is nothing for it. Or maybe it was just Pastir starting it all, don't remember. We see America as a menace, like a huge vacuum cleaner running loose in the world, sucking up everything n Slavs that end up there become different (some, ok a lot)... I lived in Chicago as a college student. The city has the largest Polish community in the world outside Poland. So, I saw a lot of Polish Americans & Polish from Europe (my roommate was a Polack from Europe, very nice guy). And...well, it's like looking at 2 different nations, not seeing the same one. I'm generalizing but a lot of times it's true, when I saw Polish Americans, I thought many of them as fully Americans, and Polish from Europe as the Polish. Meaning, when many Polish Americans say where their 'heritage' is from, they also don't distinguish themselves in any way from other regular Americans, they just like to bring it up. It's as if I would say, "yeah I'm proud of my heritage, 5000 years ago I was a Celtic hunter" Considering that you lived in Chicago, why move from a sizeable Serbian community to...Louisiana? U can't even stand the weather. You don't have to reply to that. But I can tell, you aren't fully Americanized, but a Serb living in America: but posters will wonder the more you defend America. It's not that you are from America, it's for what you choose to say that landed you in situations, for example Orao, Serb poster from Chicago, don't think he ever got flamed for being "damn American". |
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Post by boroslav on Sept 17, 2010 7:24:25 GMT -5
Is the extent of the NATO bombardements 1999 comparable to that of the USA in Iraq (2003)?
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Post by Dushko on Sept 19, 2010 1:08:13 GMT -5
Its a long story, but here goes:
I was living in Tampa, FL a the time of the 1999 bombings, about 16 years there in total. I am originally from NW Indiana, a suburb of Chicago, but have not lived there for over 20 years.
I moved to LA after I had surgery (in FL) because it was the best opportunity at the time. We don't like it here and are looking to get out. LA has lousy weather in the summer (HOT!) with even worse people, a bunch of redneck hillbilly types. I never realized how awful and backward Americans can be until I moved here.
Yes, Chicago is a great place by comparison with a lot of Slavs there, tons of great food and lots of activities. My wife, son and I are trying to get back and my wife's family (Polaks!) and most of mine are there.
Don't get me wrong, I agree America IS a menace, but don't blame all Americans, in particular white, for the evil the American gov't does. There is no greater enemy of the American people (especially whites) than the American gov't. They are doing their damndest to destroy white America, European Christian society, especially by importing all the third world scrap here in particular the muslims. Most of us don't like whats going on, but we have no power to change things.
My father was a great man, a Chetnik, and wept when Clinton bombed Serbians who have always been an ally to Americans. He came here without a penny in his pockets, worked very hard for his family, himself and his new country and had a good, prosperous life before he died in 2004 (there's another story to that). He helped his Serbian Orthodox Church tremendously and in spite of his rough exterior, he was a compassionate man and helped anybody who was in need regardless who they were.
Considering these things I have told you, how can any Slavic Europeans trust America and believe that America will help them after they tried to destroy Serbia and even the American (white) people?
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Post by pastir on Sept 19, 2010 16:27:04 GMT -5
Is the extent of the NATO bombardements 1999 comparable to that of the USA in Iraq (2003)? No, the bombing of Iraq was much worse. |
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Post by pastir on Sept 19, 2010 18:39:58 GMT -5
Was some Polak/Irish American arguing with other Americans on some forums about the Serbs were right n how the war was also aimed at Slavs in general. Tired of all the forums I came across were American, Serbian, n what not I wanted an all-Slavic Forum, gathering place to discuss all our issues in one place, instead of spread out. I talked him into starting a forum for that goal, this is how Slavija forum first started. So you "knew" Yasha P./Wojciech before he started the forum? I didn't know that. |
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Post by pastir on Sept 19, 2010 18:56:24 GMT -5
I am curious if any of you living in Serbia or surrounding territories have personal accounts of the criminal attacks on your country by Nato? I am particularly interested in Nato losses in aircraft that you know of either by witnessing it or from credible sources such as relatives, friends, etc. I am also curious if anyone you know was injured or killed. There is 10 million Serbs, but only a small portion of them was in the military at the time. And also around 2,500-3000 people were killed which is a lot, but much less that 10 million. So the number of people that will have noteable personal accounts is relatiely low to begin with, and then there is the matter that not many people frequent this forum so the chances of coming across someone like that here is miniscule. I had an old uncle that lived in a part of Belgrade (Galenika naselje in Zemun) that was close to some of the targets they hit, but what is there to say? They stayed indoors mostly and they ducktaped windows so they wouldn't be smashed. |
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Post by pastir on Sept 19, 2010 19:04:45 GMT -5
There is an article in Airforces Monthly Magazine about Serbian air defenses during the 1999 Nato Nazi bombing of Serbia. It says there were 2 confirmed kills on Serbian soil, an F-117 and an F-16. Possible others downed in Bosnia. Surely, somebody must know something? There was also a number of aircraft that were damaged and had to make emergency landings. There might have been more planes shot down that NATO managed to keep secret, but not more than one or two. The Yugoslav army simply did not have the opportunity to harm NATO planes because they kept above 15,000 feet. However this also meant that NATO aviation was powerless to harm the Yugoslav army. Only around 160 Serbian soldiers were killed by NATO strikes. You had a situation where neither military could damage the other. So as far as the military situation was concerned the Serbs could have lasted forever. However NATO then decided to bring the war to the civilians and would not have stopped before it destroyed the whole of countries infrastructure and economy and reduced the Serbian people to extreme poverty for decades to come. Because for this they did not need to come down bellow 15,000 feet and risk their own casualties. I am sorry if this is not romantic enough, but it is how it was. There was no shooting down of dozens of planes or commando raids onto Albanian airfields or whatever. Just yielding to terrorism. |
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Post by pastir on Sept 19, 2010 19:15:19 GMT -5
For personal accounts you should really watch videos of interviews with participants.
I remembered one in particular with one of the Serbian pilots who was shot down and ejected and survived. He said he read a book written by the American pilot who shot him down. And in this book the American describing the shooting down recalled his thoughts as "I hope the pilot did not survive". The pilot interviewed was disgusted to read this, because he had like a 'nothing personal' attitude and was after the enemy aircraft but not the pilot, but here was the American pilot wished death upon his opponent.
And of course it should had been the other way around, it should had been the Serbian pilot wishing death upon someone who is bombing his country, but the American pilot had no excuse for his attitude. That is US military personnel for you. Cowboys without an ounce of honor or soldierly professionalism.
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Post by Dushko on Sept 20, 2010 18:35:17 GMT -5
Planes, bombs and missiles were flying all over the place in Serbia, it would be difficult for a lot of people not to see them during or after the fact. Witnesses not only im Serbia and Kosovo, but also neighbors in Bosnia, Croatia and maybe even Bulgaria.
The Americans and Europeans lie quite a bit and I am curious to find the real truth and facts regarding the casualties.
True, however the Nato cowards flew out of range of air defenses and the scumbags started to target civilians. Some brave, honorable soldiers they were, the real war criminals.
You mention a book by an American pilot, do you remember what book that was?
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