Vityaz
Starshiy Serdzhant
Posts: 49
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Post by Vityaz on Nov 16, 2004 18:03:00 GMT -5
Ok, thankyou for answering my question. I now understand what you are saying and agree to a point. "the hammer & Sickle, images and names of famous Bolsheviks and revolutionaries", yes those are a disgrace as well as certain communist holidays. However, I suppose I do not feel that way about the red star or the color red for that matter...especially when used by the military. But, I do see your point. "Orthodox Battalions" I didn't know about this?
"True, but yanks are GROWN on generation of anti Russian/Soviet movies and books, so to them just being RUSSIAN already makes you a commie somehow"
Don't get angry at Yanks....educate them.
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Post by Vladimir the Solidarist on Nov 16, 2004 18:17:05 GMT -5
However, I suppose I do not feel that way about the red star or the color red for that matter...especially when used by the military. The problem is that the presence of the star and flag in the military became such a cultural staple that people began ascribing some patriotic senses to it. In their mind the red star began to be seen as the image of Russia. We've seen many films where some nasty Germans get shot down by heroes wearing red stars, for instance. Old grandparents talk about their experience in WWII and proudly wear various awards for their valor that are in the form of a red star, a red banner. The images begin to take on a secondary meaning, it becomes the symbol of Russia, basically. This effect is desired by the communists, beginning with WWII in particular this was the goal - the creation of a certain Soviet patriotism. It's like Italian dressing, the oil and vinegar doesn't mix, but if you pick up the bottle and give it a tough shaking it becomes a mixture for a few minutes. But then slowly it separates back to its natural state. The use of the red star and red flag has a similar purpose. Someone wants to see the image of two incompatible and separate substances mixed into one, so they artificially create this mixture. Unlike Italian dressing, this combination tastes much worse and is only pleasant to those who grew up on it. This mixture has the effect of a narcotic - it removes you away from reality. Some people get so addicted to a narcotic that they can't get away from it, they have to be given some kind of dose or else the withdrawal symptoms are too severe. This seems to be the policy of today's Russian government - slowly drowning the addiction with token symbols as opposed to "shock therapy" which has a very bad reputation thanks to Yeltsin's financial games. |
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Post by Slavictorious on Nov 16, 2004 20:18:12 GMT -5
Wow soo much passion over a stupid symbol...The fact is communist or not, the red star was a symbol of our greatest might, the greatest power we had in the world.
Hail Slavija!
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Post by Danik on Nov 17, 2004 3:30:46 GMT -5
Slavictorious is kind of right, Soviet was kind of powerfull, but it was not only russia. And the color red is a fine color, it was even used before the bolshevics....just remember "streltzi" "the shooters" in Tzarz Army....
Vityaz, Russian army is regular goverment forces, but there is regular battalions, and orthodox battalions. The only diffrance is that people who serev in orthodox battalions are free from duty on orthodox holidays so they could go to church, and they also are obligated to visit church every sunday, it is kind of their duty to visit church. Then they have some time in the day for prayers. And they have Bible and orthodoxy studies or somthing like that. That is the difference, or that is what Ive heard form a man who works in a church in Stockholm. ;D
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Post by russkiivoin on Nov 17, 2004 18:15:13 GMT -5
Wow soo much passion over a stupid symbol...The fact is communist or not, the red star was a symbol of our greatest might, the greatest power we had in the world. Hail Slavija! These are non-Russian foreign symbols imposed on Russia by tyranny and oppression the sooner they are completely eliminated the better. There is nothing wrong with color red, the Moscow flag is red for example. That shouldn’t the flag of the Russian army however. In fact the whole “Red” army should be symbolically disbanded and reorganized. |
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Vityaz
Starshiy Serdzhant
Posts: 49
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Post by Vityaz on Nov 17, 2004 19:28:16 GMT -5
Danik, Ok I see how that works. I just would have assumed that any Orthodox soldier could be in any unit and worship. Most militaries have religious chaplains and I assumed Russia would have been the same. I guess this would be due to the former rule of athiest bolsheviks.
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Post by Vladimir the Solidarist on Nov 17, 2004 22:22:54 GMT -5
Wow soo much passion over a stupid symbol...The fact is communist or not, the red star was a symbol of our greatest might, the greatest power we had in the world. Imagine how much more benevolent and advanced that power would have been had the inventors of the red star never been able to succeed in their revolution. Imagine how life would have been if Constantinople was liberated from the Turks by Russian forces, if Germany was kept in check by a victorious Russia versus the League of Nations, etc. The red flag in pre-revolution days used to be a symbol for a town that was affected by a plague. As a matter of fact during the civil war some civilians would keep away from a city that had a red flag fearing that it was besieged by the plague. They were, in fact, right - the red flag did always symbolise Russia under a plague. How I can view such symbols with any pride is beyond my comprehension. Nikita Kruschev banging his shoe on the table at the UN or Stalin's wheeling dealing at the Potsdam and Yalta conference table is not the kind of "world power" that I respect, and to call it Slavic is to call the Bosnian radical Islamists the same - inaccurate. |
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Post by TsarSamuil on Nov 18, 2004 2:43:06 GMT -5
"Let the Japanese whine all they want....what are they gonna do? send godzilla after Putin?" Hahaha!!! ;D "The only russian planes I know of crashing is the ones that terrorist blow up or the ukrainians shot down with missiles." Lol That was hallarious when they shot down the civil plane with jews on board ;D You forget that the Slavic crew died, shame on you!  As for the symbols, they are there to highlight the glory of defeating nazi-germany, in the world's largest ever offensive. The ruskis won ww2, the largest war ever, the allies joined at the end of it when the outcome was given (and now they try to hog all de glory!). So maybe it's not entirely wrong to use those symbols? At least to remind those bastards who won the war, and what power it was, and what power Russia can still become.  |
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Post by Vladimir the Solidarist on Nov 18, 2004 17:07:53 GMT -5
As for the symbols, they are there to highlight the glory of defeating nazi-germany, in the world's largest ever offensive. If you want to celebrate the triumph of Stalin and the Communist Party over the Third Reich in a struggle of two tyrants, by all means the red star is a most appropriate symbol. If you want to celebrate the heroism of the Russian people who defended their homes from invaders, then a tricolor flag and a double eagle are the correct symbols, and have been for centuries. By trying to satisfy one group of nostalgic individuals who have been throughout their life confused and mislead, we are dishonoring countless others. |
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Post by JPSlovjanski on Nov 19, 2004 18:28:20 GMT -5
Soviet symbols are a blight on Russia's honor, that means the red star, the hammer and cycle, the red flag, the images and names of famous Bolsheviks and revolutionaries. These symbols were created by and are associated with a regime that was anti-Russian, and anti-Christian, they were invented by those who despised Russian patriotism and Orthodoxy. The attempt of taking these symbols and melding them with Russian patriotic sentiment is ideologically futile and blasphemous. It doesn't so much matter what the Yanks think (that ranks rather low on the priority list), it's about honor before the history and legacy of the nation and its people. YES!!! LORD YES!! Thanks for pointing this out. There are so many Soviet nostolgists out there who whine about the glory of the Red Army and so on, while modern day Russia is falling to pieces in some crucial areas. It was not Communism nor its symbols that built the Soviet Union, it was an inherit tenacity in the Russian spirit which could not be extinguished despite supression. Imagine what it can do under a new worldview that supports rather than suppresses that spirit. On another note: Do not immediately discount deals with Japan. On another forum we had a discussion about Russia's arms purchasing. Right now, Russia's military cannot afford to field many of its most advanced weapons which have been recently produced. In addition to this, Russia should not have to make every weapon system it uses. While developing weapons in those fields that have hitherto been ignored in Russian arms development(A REAL MBT, top-attack warheads, etc.), they might as well buy existing ones wherever available until they develop their own. Japan has a nice tank that can probably stand up to M1A2s and Challengers quite nicely, and it's probably cheaper to build under license or buy outright than Western designs. Plus I think the Japanese might be more willing to sell Russia weapons than say, France(LeClerc is a good tank). |
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Post by russkiivoin on Nov 20, 2004 11:39:15 GMT -5
On another note: Do not immediately discount deals with Japan. On another forum we had a discussion about Russia's arms purchasing. Right now, Russia's military cannot afford to field many of its most advanced weapons which have been recently produced. In addition to this, Russia should not have to make every weapon system it uses. While developing weapons in those fields that have hitherto been ignored in Russian arms development(A REAL MBT, top-attack warheads, etc.), they might as well buy existing ones wherever available until they develop their own. Japan has a nice tank that can probably stand up to M1A2s and Challengers quite nicely, and it's probably cheaper to build under license or buy outright than Western designs. Plus I think the Japanese might be more willing to sell Russia weapons than say, France(LeClerc is a good tank). Are you crazy? Russia should now buy weapons from Japan and France?! |
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Post by Hrast on Nov 20, 2004 12:24:31 GMT -5
Yeah and the Japaneese tank he is speaking off is acctually by far the most expensive tank in the world.  |
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Post by demokrat on Nov 20, 2004 16:16:56 GMT -5
Japan has a nice tank that can probably stand up to M1A2s and Challengers quite nicely, and it's probably cheaper to build under license or buy outright than Western designs. Plus I think the Japanese might be more willing to sell Russia weapons than say, France(LeClerc is a good tank). Russia to buy French or Japanese tanks? Come on, Russia has probably the best tank that currently exists - the T-95. I have read a lot about it and it has some features and capabilities that the Americans with their tanks can only dream of. Russia is really ahead of the West with its tanks, so why should Russia buy already almost outdated tanks and be dependent on the West for spare parts? |
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Post by Danik on Nov 22, 2004 4:45:58 GMT -5
Yeah demokrat is right, and what about that Black Eagale or somthing like that.....aint it T-95?? Anyway russian tanks have always been simple and always competted agannst western tanks.....and always won, and when americans talk about how Saddams army lost in russian tanks, man that is propoganda and you have to think about the crew, the arabs probobly didnt get tanks in arabic so they had to learn russian ;D  jokin |
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Post by demokrat on Nov 22, 2004 14:29:17 GMT -5
No, the T-2000 (Black Eagle) and T-95 are two different tanks. The Russian Black Eagle tank is meant to be for export only (countries like South Korea, China and India are already interested), while T-95 is currently meant to be used by Russian army only. Though Black Eagle is impressive, it falls within the 4th generation (very modern) tanks. T-95, on the other hand, is 4.5th generation or something like that and is definitely the most modern tank in the world today.
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jokin
