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Post by gligorow on Dec 13, 2007 4:36:41 GMT -5
Private Messaging returns error, so I decided to post here..........
White Cossack,
Why did you closed my thread about the Pseudomacedoinians?
I was pointing to a fact that a country in which people have names like Branimir, Miroslav, Vlado, Dobre etc. has via academia, high politics, shool educationcompletely onliterated it's Slavic consiussness and replaced with an idea that they are desdedants of an ancient North Greek tribe, and that they have more to do with the Japanese or Irish than with, for example Slovenians, Russians, Slovaks etc.
This idea took extremely deep root into the hearts of the "Macedonian" people, a non-existant entity according to:
Turkish adminsitrative documents, which number hundreds of thousands in archives in FYROM and Turkey
Statements of travelers (English, German, Hungarian, Croat) which visited the region during early and middle Turkish rule
Statements of local Catholic Church which gathered detailed info about local circumstances, including ethnicity.
Statements of travelers, journalist, diplomats,missionaries, officers of Western origin from 1878 to 1912, hundreds of them, with many books being published by them.
Investigation of Slavic and non-Slavic slavists, ethnographers, historians, linguists etc in the 100 years predating the 1943
They never ONCE mention "Macedonian people" "Macedonians" "Town inhabited by Macedonians", "people speaking Macedonian"
They always mention Bulgarians, also some Serbs and Greeks as native elements, with the Albanian and also the Turks.
THERE IS NO A SLAVIC NATION THAT IS NAMED "MACEDONIAN" PRIOR TO 1943.THERE WOULD BE THOUSANDS OF MENTIONS OF THEM IN THE INSCRIPTIONS ON BUILDINGS, ICONS, FRESCOES, MANUSCRIPTS, BOOKS PRODUCED BY THEM, TRAVELERS RAPORTS, TURKISH DOCUMENTS, DIPLOMATIC DOCUMENTS, EUROPEAN SCIENTIFIC PAPERS BUT THERE IS N-O-N-E FOR 1.300 YEARS!
THESE PEOPLE DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVES TODAY A SLAVS.NONE OF THEM.THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES DESCEDANTS OF PHILLIPOS, ALEXANDROS, CLEOPATRA et al AND THE AMPHITEATERS AND TEMPLES TO ZEUS AND ATHENA IN EGYPT, SYRIA, PERSIA WHICH ALEXANDROS FOUNDED, THEIR NATIONAL HERITAGE.
THEY HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE SLAVDOM and you by censoring my topic that raised this DRAMATIC ISSUE in the best USSR-styled practice are not helping!
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Post by jaropolk on Dec 13, 2007 6:09:50 GMT -5
I agree with you.
Лучше горькая, но правда.
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Post by The Ultimate Warrior on Dec 13, 2007 6:51:21 GMT -5
My opinion is that the admins of this site must quickly ban the user called gligorow. This user is not of slavic origion - he is a "greek" and is known as "Istor" on greek and macedonian forums.
This user does not promote slavic unity, he only promotes the genocide of slavic peoples in the greek provinces of macedonia and thrace.
He is known as a pest and spammer, if the admins do not ban this strange person this forum will be spammed with a million topics about the greekness of macedonia.
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Post by gligorow on Dec 13, 2007 8:28:16 GMT -5
That's right "Tavarish" Mladshiy Leytenant, sending the user to "Gulag" or "Psikhushka" wouldn't be a bad solution either!
First of all, why "Greek" instead of Greek?They are authentic people with 3.500 years of history, instead of nations created By Tito.
Is the Slavic unity going to be achieved by the acts of creating new nations out of Slavdom, whose entire ideology would be based on their self-styled "Celtic", "Ostrogothic", "Etruscan" "Latin" "Iranian" and other ethnic origin?
What's next?"Vojvodian nation", "Polesian" ethnicity "Zaporozhyan"people, "Rostovian" nation?
Well said: Greek provinces, where a minority of Slavs were assimilated, or send to Bulgaria with exvhange of the Greeks from that state.10.000 Bulgarians who live there are not worthy of conflict with Greece.We cannot be in conflict with dosens of surrounding states just because we lost some Slavs there via assimilation.
And this "Macedonian" nationalism is primarily anti-Bulgarian and anti-Serbian.Again, the fact that the official policy of the country is that they are non-Slavs and that shall have implication into future when it comes to creating alliances or when sides should be taken "either against or pro".
The fact that instead of four nations in the Balkans with history of well over 1000 years: Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian and Bulgarian we have all of them plus :"Montenegrins (est.2006"), "Bosnyaks" (est. 1991),"Macedonians" (est. 1943) "Goranians" (in the process of making) shows that instead of unity we have a fragmenation into multitude of states that will kill each other about who has a "more glorious, millenia-lasting non-Slavic origin".
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Post by White Cossack on Dec 13, 2007 9:59:39 GMT -5
Read the rules and you shall know why.
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Post by Boris Sarafov on Dec 27, 2007 11:36:09 GMT -5
www.makfax.com.mk/look/novina/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=2&NrArticle=95834&NrIssue=541&NrSection=10Crvenkovski says name more important than NATO Skopje /27/12/ 12:34 If we need to make an ultimate choice - NATO membership or change of country's name - we will stand behind the name, Macedonian President Branko Crvenkovski said in an interview for Alsat-M TV. Greece's eventual veto on Macedonia's admission to NATO would mean a blatant breach of the 1995 interim treaty, consequently, this document would not be in effect for the Republic of Macedonia as well, President Crvenkovski said. He estimates that both Macedonia and Greece undergo a pressure to reach a solution to name dispute. "Pressure is piled on both countries. Our country has been urged to be more constructive towards Greece, whilst Greece has been urged not to use the veto powers," Crvenkovski said. Asked to comment the so-called "May agreement" between VMRO-DPMNE and DUI, President Trajkovski said any agreement should be complied with, and the obligations arising from the agreement should be fulfilled. Crvenkovski blamed the government of wasting precious time in terms of reaching agreement with opposition parties over pivotal issues. Therefore, the country did not get a starting date of EU accession talks. "Some saw the ratings more important than showing co-operation in bridging the obstacles," Crvenkovski told Alsat-M TV.
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Post by Orao on Dec 28, 2007 0:12:39 GMT -5
i'm for recognizing you under the name Republic of Macedonia, with a treaty stating you are not ancient Macedonians and will never have territorial ambitions towards Greece or any of your neighbors on the basis of that. Settle this issue once and for all through this and move on.
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Post by Boris Sarafov on Dec 28, 2007 0:24:55 GMT -5
if you don't already know, thats already printed in Macedonia's Constitution.
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Post by medo on Dec 28, 2007 2:18:47 GMT -5
I am very skeptical about Macedonia's future as an independent state. Actually it is not even today an independent state, as it has to follow directions and orders from USA and EU.
Unfortunately Macedonia shall not reject NATO accession because of the reasons it should reject it, and these real reasons for rejecting NATO in case of Macedonia might be:
1) no one is threating it, at least no one outside of the NATO
2) There is no interest for Macedonia to wage wars for other countries' interests (today Macedonia has troops in Iraq and Afghanistan)
3) there is a real threat from the NATO countries themselves (Bulgaria, Greece), or those that might soon become NATO members (Albania). However NATO couldn't protect it as it does not interfere in other intraNATO conflicts (e.g. Turkey vs. Greece etc...). NATO just freezes the problems but does not settle them since NATO needs problems for its existence and as the instruments of pressure on its members.
but instead of these real reasons for NATO rejection Macedonia is bluffing about name!?!
At the very end:
1) Macedonia shall join NATO under humiliating conditions,
2) under pressure from NATO countries (USA) it shall grant very great autonomy for Albanians across at least half of the country
3) It shall eventually collapse and be divided into Albanian and Slavic parts.
4) The Slavic part shall eventually be divided into great Bulgarian and very small Serbian part.
5) The end of the Macedonian nation
If Macedonians want to prevent this to happen they should abandon the idea of joining NATO, and build strong ties with Russia.
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Post by Boris Sarafov on Dec 28, 2007 11:37:45 GMT -5
I am very skeptical about Macedonia's future as an independent state. Actually it is not even today an independent state, as it has to follow directions and orders from USA and EU. Unfortunately Macedonia shall not reject NATO accession because of the reasons it should reject it, and these real reasons for rejecting NATO in case of Macedonia might be: 1) no one is threating it, at least no one outside of the NATO 2) There is no interest for Macedonia to wage wars for other countries' interests (today Macedonia has troops in Iraq and Afghanistan) 3) there is a real threat from the NATO countries themselves (Bulgaria, Greece), or those that might soon become NATO members (Albania). However NATO couldn't protect it as it does not interfere in other intraNATO conflicts (e.g. Turkey vs. Greece etc...). NATO just freezes the problems but does not settle them since NATO needs problems for its existence and as the instruments of pressure on its members. but instead of these real reasons for NATO rejection Macedonia is bluffing about name!?! At the very end: 1) Macedonia shall join NATO under humiliating conditions, 2) under pressure from NATO countries (USA) it shall grant very great autonomy for Albanians across at least half of the country 3) It shall eventually collapse and be divided into Albanian and Slavic parts. 4) The Slavic part shall eventually be divided into great Bulgarian and very small Serbian part. 5) The end of the Macedonian nation If Macedonians want to prevent this to happen they should abandon the idea of joining NATO, and build strong ties with Russia. I agree with you on many things that you have posted here Medo. Except I do not believe that Macedonia will cease to exist. Our borders will not change, either not to get bigger or smaller. |
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Post by balkannj on Jan 4, 2008 3:56:11 GMT -5
Armed attack in Macedonia kills 1 policeman, injuring 2 TIRANA, Jan. 3 (Xinhua) -- One policeman was killed and another two were injured in an armed attack on Thursday afternoon in Skopje, capital city of Macedonia, police said. The attackers in a moving car opened fire at a jeep that was transporting a special police force. Three policemen were wounded, and one of them died on his way to hospital. The attackers fled the scene, and the car from which the attack was carried out was later found near an Albanian-populated village, news reaching here from Skopje reported. Police found some firearms inside the abandoned car, Macedonia's Interior Ministry spokesman Ivo Kotevski said, adding that an investigation into the attack has been launched. There have been several clashes in the past between armed Albanian groups and Macedonian security forces. Last November 7, at least four alleged Albanian criminals were killed in a firefight that erupted during a massive raid in ethnically tense north-western Macedonia.
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Post by Boris Sarafov on Jan 13, 2008 22:15:59 GMT -5
During the 1990's Greece deported over 900, 000 Albanians!
I was wondering why doesn't Macedonia and Serbia in Kosovo do the same.
My question is how?
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Post by anubis on Jan 13, 2008 23:16:18 GMT -5
Take a look at history; especially Anglo-Germanic history. They were pretty effective at it look at the United States.
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gleb
Starshiy Leytenant
Posts: 363
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Post by gleb on Jan 14, 2008 4:15:59 GMT -5
I think that in modern world there is no possibility to deport minorities. All these minorities appeal to human rights and other democratic values. In the eyes of the so called "civilized world" such acts would be equall to ethnical clensings. These liberal games will destroy Europe sooner or later.
US and its muppets consider terrorists to be "noble rebels". They also don't say "genocide". They prefer "struggle for independence". National armies which fight terrorists are "invaders".
Sorry for my bad English. I hope that my point of view is clear.
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Vladimir
Mayor
Gospod carstvuje!
Posts: 604
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Post by Vladimir on Jan 14, 2008 9:09:20 GMT -5
Easily... we'll deport 'em into the Adriatic sea, mwahahahah ;D |
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