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Post by Dushko on Jan 8, 2011 22:59:14 GMT -5
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Made possible thanks to technology given away to China for free by the stupid Americans and Russians...
China's New Fighter Jet Could Pose 'Terrifying' Challenge to U.S. Fleet
By Jana Winter
Published January 07, 2011 | FoxNews.com
While the Pentagon downplays China’s rollout this week of what appears to be a jet fighter designed using sophisticated stealth technology, military experts are warning that the aircraft – reportedly capable of besting America’s F-22 in speed and maneuverability – could pose the greatest threat yet to U.S. air superiority.
Decorated Navy fighter pilot Matthew “Whiz” Buckley, a Top Gun graduate of the Navy Fighter Weapons School who flew 44 combat missions over Iraq, says, “It’s probably leaps and bounds above where we are, and that’s terrifying.”
“As a former Navy fighter pilot, going up against something that’s stealthy, highly maneuverable and with electronic systems more capable than mine -- that’ll keep me up at night,” said Buckley, now chief strategy officer at Fox3 Options LLC.
Buckley said photos posted online of the radar-evading Chengdu J-20 jet fighter lead him to believe the aircraft has great stealth capabilities, based on what appears to be a bumpy exterior possibly housing stealth technology, and the lack of external components, such as a gas tank and missiles.
“It was built to reduce radar signatures. You can tell it has some serious stealth technology,” he said. “My F-18 looks like an 18-wheeler on radar. That thing might not even show up.”
The U.S. military's current top-of-the-line fighter is Lockheed Martin's F-22 Raptor, the world's only operational fifth generation fighter. In 2009, Congress capped production of F-22s at 18, relying on the cheaper F-35. Congress does not appear to be reconsidering the cap, which experts call the only real challenger to China’s J-20.
Richard Fisher, a senior fellow on Asian Military Affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, a Washington-based security think tank, says Chinese officials have said that their program is aimed at competing with the F-22 Raptor.
“From what we can see, I conclude that this aircraft does have great potential to be superior in some respects to the American F-22, and could be decisively superior to the F-35,” said Fisher.
Fisher in particular pointed to the Chengdu J-20’s stealth technology and ability to super cruise, or fly supersonically without using fuel-guzzling afterburners. He said it has super maneuverability due to its thrust-vectored engines that allow for sharp turns.
And while the J-20's engine is still in development, Fisher said it's supposed to deliver 15 to 18 tons of thrust, more powerful than the F-22.
“This fighter will likely start entering service in serious numbers by the end of this decade. The Chinese can accelerate this event by purchasing new Russian engines and settling for a lesser capability,” Fisher said.
Experts say it’s hard to say exactly what the J-20’s capabilities are, especially in a fire fight -- but offered a dire prediction: “With China having a fifth generation fighter, the U.S. will lose F-22s faster than previous estimates.”
As for the J-20 pilots, Fisher said the Chinese Air Force has over 500 fourth generation fighters and is making pilot training a priority.
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“China's air training capabilities have increased greatly over the last decade, to include multiple levels of aircraft, better simulators, and more realistic air combat exercises. They will be able to train pilots for their fifth generation combat force,” Fisher said.
Buckley says the U.S. has moved in the opposite direction, dramatically reducing flight-time training for its fighter pilots, choosing instead to use cheaper flight stimulators.
Limiting F-22 production could prove a grave mistake, Fisher said.
Referring to the J-20 photos -- and a new video of the fighter taxiing on a runway -- Fisher said: “There is now every justification for us to be building modernized version of F-22 and to consider capability enhancements for the F-35 that preserve its competitiveness into next decade."
The next generation joint strike fighter is supposed to be the F-35, Buckley said, which is built for use by all services and must encompass the specific and different needs of the Navy, Air Force, Marines.
“When you try to make a jack of all trades, you have tradeoffs,” Buckley said. “It’s obvious that the Chinese are throwing money and technology to making something the best, and here we’re worried that one is going to bankrupt the country.”
“We used be No. 1 at having the leading technology. ... Now, we’re kind of in catch-up mode, where we’ve never really been before.”
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Post by kooratz on Jan 9, 2011 0:43:40 GMT -5
You're a fake!This jet is a fake, the US Millitary fascist machine propaganda to spend more billions ,at the expense of ther people!
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Post by Dushko on Jan 9, 2011 21:06:07 GMT -5
You're a fake!This jet is a fake, the US Millitary fascist machine propaganda to spend more billions ,at the expense of ther people! Maybe so, but you can't argue that the stupid traitors in America would sell their mother's soul for a few extra bucks. You also can say that the Chinese are not America's (and even Russia's) friend who can be trusted. They are devils who want to destroy us all. |
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Post by kooratz on Jan 9, 2011 23:00:46 GMT -5
You're a fake!This jet is a fake, the US Millitary fascist machine propaganda to spend more billions ,at the expense of ther people! Maybe so, but you can't argue that the stupid traitors in America would sell their mother's soul for a few extra bucks. You also can say that the Chinese are not America's (and even Russia's) friend who can be trusted. They are devils who want to destroy us all.[/quote You don't get many things right but you hit the nail on the head on this one! |
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Post by TsarSamuil on Jan 11, 2011 13:44:40 GMT -5
Stealth planes show on advanced ruski radars, it's only a matter of time until even better radars n satellites will permanently remove any stealth n it will all be about the plane's performance again n not how good they are at hiding.
Stealth planes like any other weapon is just showing ur opponent that you should think twice about trying to bully him. Don't think Russia, USA, China will fight each other again directly.
But, since Rus T-50 is developed "jointly" with India I wonder if Pakistan nagging n China wanting a counterweight against India n based on past Pakistan-Sino military cooperation that Pakistan could get its hands on the J-20 stealth plane...
Lets hope not, tech like this shouldn't be in slimy muslim hands...
Hopefully China will be protective of it like the US is of the F-22.
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Post by TsarSamuil on Jan 11, 2011 14:58:09 GMT -5
Btw it's not China's fault that American economy is bad or that US doesn't dare to fly the F-22 in combat n it got canceled. F-35 program is currently frozen except for those planes being built n will be given for free to Israel...lol.. I guess the US got scared of loosing tech after F-117 got shot down over Serbia. Btw are u sure it was America that gave stealth tech to the Chinese and not Serbia that did it? So far as I know, the Chinese got some nuclear tech stolen from USA n every time China comes with something new, some American will always say, "traitors in the US sold the technology to the Chinese!"  |
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Post by TsarSamuil on Jan 11, 2011 15:01:51 GMT -5
But never fear, here's the US 6th generation plane! xD   |
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Post by Dushko on Jan 13, 2011 19:34:04 GMT -5
Stealth planes show on advanced ruski radars, it's only a matter of time until even better radars n satellites will permanently remove any stealth n it will all be about the plane's performance again n not how good they are at hiding. Stealth planes like any other weapon is just showing ur opponent that you should think twice about trying to bully him. Don't think Russia, USA, China will fight each other again directly. But, since Rus T-50 is developed "jointly" with India I wonder if Pakistan nagging n China wanting a counterweight against India n based on past Pakistan-Sino military cooperation that Pakistan could get its hands on the J-20 stealth plane... Lets hope not, tech like this shouldn't be in slimy muslim hands... Hopefully China will be protective of it like the US is of the F-22. You are correct, whenever someone comes out with a new weapon or defense technology, someone else comes up with a way to defeat it. Its never ending - working to trump your enemy. However, obsolete technolgy can always be used against the cash-strapped little guy, such as Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. The USA is a real bully and they know they can beat up these little guys with little effort. Lets see them taking on a well armed, well prepared adversary and see how well the US military does. |
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Post by Dushko on Jan 13, 2011 19:48:55 GMT -5
Btw it's not China's fault that American economy is bad or that US doesn't dare to fly the F-22 in combat n it got canceled. F-35 program is currently frozen except for those planes being built n will be given for free to Israel...lol.. I guess the US got scared of loosing tech after F-117 got shot down over Serbia. Btw are u sure it was America that gave stealth tech to the Chinese and not Serbia that did it? So far as I know, the Chinese got some nuclear tech stolen from USA n every time China comes with something new, some American will always say, "traitors in the US sold the technology to the Chinese! The USA is bankrupt, so there goes the super expensive, high tech weapons. No tax dollars, no money to spend. Besides, the USA doesn't want to "win" wars, they want to stay and occupy forever so that the contractors they hire can rake in the $$$ for years after year. In return, the US officials get their cut, handsome ones at the least. Most of US personnel in places like Crapistan are civilians working for companies like Halliburton, companies whose shareholders are Cheney, Bush, etc. You get the idea! The US military is really the army of the Fortune 500, not of the American people. As far as technology is concerned, the Chinks get it many ways: - They buy it from American traitors or through espionage. - They learn it by sending droves of Chinese Nationals to US universities or to work in US companies, then return to their homeland to use their US given knowledge against us. - Any time a US company moves their manufacturing operations to China, the Chinese rip-off the technology by stealing the plans, specifications, drawings, calculations, etc. Then thet are hard at work improving on what was "given" to them for FREE! They have absolutely no respect for patents, intellectual property, etc. Just about every type of product imaginable is manufactured in China by US or European companies because of extreme greed. Our business and government leaders are destroying our nation. |
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Post by Dushko on Jan 13, 2011 19:49:46 GMT -5
But never fear, here's the US 6th generation plane! xD Ha Ha! LOL! |
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Post by Dushko on Jan 22, 2011 23:16:16 GMT -5
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Post by Dushko on Jan 24, 2011 23:04:19 GMT -5
China used downed U.S. fighter to develop first stealth jet
By Mail Foreign Service
China was able to build its first stealth bomber using technology gleaned from a downed U.S. fighter, it has been claimed.
Beijing unveiled its state-of-the-art jet – the Chengdu J-20 – earlier this month.
Military officials say it is likely the Chinese were able to develop the stealth technology from parts of an American F-117 Nighthawk that was shot down over Serbia in 1999.
It was during Nato's aerial bombing of Serbia during the Kosovo war, that an anti-aircraft missile shot a Nighthawk. It was the first time one of the 'invisible' fighters had ever been hit
During Nato’s aerial bombing of the country during the Kosovo war, a Serbian anti-aircraft missile shot the Nighthawk. It was the first time one of the ‘invisible’ fighters had ever been hit.
The Pentagon believed a combination of clever tactics and luck had allowed a Soviet-built SA-3 missile to bring down the jet.
The pilot ejected and was rescued but the wreckage was strewn over a wide area of farmland.
Civilians collected the parts – some the size of small cars – as souvenirs.
‘At the time, our intelligence reports told of Chinese agents crisscrossing the region where the F-117 disintegrated, buying up parts of the plane from local farmers,’ says Admiral Davor Domazet-Loso, Croatia’s military chief of staff during the Kosovo war.
‘We believe the Chinese used those materials to gain an insight into secret stealth technologies... and to reverse-engineer them.’
A senior Serbian military official confirmed that pieces of the wreckage were removed by souvenir collectors, and that some ended up ‘in the hands of foreign military attaches’.
In what appears to be a clear message of its military might, China staged the first test flight of the new stealth jet earlier this month - at the same time that U.S. defence chief Robert Gates was in Beijing on the second day of an official visit.
The fighter jet's successful test follows reports that China is planning to launch its first aircraft carrier and has tested a ballistic missile capable of sinking U.S. vessels in the Pacific.
The prototype jet was shown in flight, with civilians and air force personnel watching on, in pictures on several unofficial Chinese military websites, after local media outlets had claimed a successful test flight had taken place.
While the Chinese government is renowned for its stringent approach to state secrets, photos and reports of the J-20's test have remained online.
According to international agencies, the scheduling of the test flight to coincide with Mr Gates' visit to China, coupled with the seemingly relaxed approach to reports about the flight, indicated Beijing's willingness to be more open about its military intentions.
Nonetheless, reports of the stealth's successful test will do little to quell anxieties about the speed of China's military progress.
The U.S. F-22 Raptor is currently the only operational stealth fighter in the world, while Russia's Sukhoi T-50 jet is expected to enter active service in the next four years.
But pictures of China's J-20, which looks larger than the F-22 or T-50, will be of concern to the Taiwanese government, whose antiquated aircraft and radar systems would provide little resistance to radar-evading Chinese jets.
The U.S. has claimed China would not be capable of developing a stealth jet for years and production of the F-22 was recently capped.
But the J-20's successful test, coupled with reports of the development of an aircraft carrier and missile system, confirms China's growing military might.
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Post by TsarSamuil on May 15, 2011 6:08:45 GMT -5
I guess this will be the non-Slavic air-forces thread n gloating about American failures (F-22, F-35).  ---------------- F-35 fighter falls short in flying range, Pentagon report says. ;D Reuters News Agency Fri, 13 May 2011 Jim Wolf WASHINGTON—U.S. Air Force’s F-35 fighter, due to form the bulk of future U.S. tactical air power and to be bought by allies including Canada, may be able to fly only 85 per cent as far as originally projected, a Pentagon document shows. The radar-evading aircraft’s “A” model is currently estimated to have a combat mission radius of 584 nautical miles, just short of the required 590 nautical miles, said a Dec. 31-dated report to the U.S. Congress. Program officials originally estimated that the F-35A would be able to hit targets 690 nautical miles away, unrefuelled, or 15 per cent more than now, the U.S. Department of Defence’s “Selected Acquisition Report” showed. The current combat radius prediction is based on estimates of the amount of compressed air diverted from the engine to run onboard systems as well as on aircraft performance and fuel capacity that are not yet fully known, the report said. “Current estimates have built-in margin that may not be realized,” it said, adding that aircraft modifications were possible to add fuel capacity that would boost the range. The F-35 family of fighters is the Pentagon’s costliest arms purchase, projected to total $382 billion over the coming two decades for 2,443 aircraft. Three models are being built for the U.S. Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps and allied countries by Lockheed Martin Corp. The Pentagon report appeared first on the Dew Line, an aerospace blog. Lockheed Martin, the Pentagon’s No. 1 supplier by sales, did not respond to a request for comment, nor did the military’s F-35 joint program office. The Air Force is scheduled to buy 1,763 of the conventional takeoff and landing “A” models to replace F-16s and A-10s and to complement the F-22, the premier U.S. dogfighter. F-35 early-production models are powered by the F135 engine built by Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp. As a “stealth” aircraft meant to appear as small as a bird on enemy radar, the F-35 carries no external fuel tanks and all of its weapons are carried inside a bomb bay. Even as the F-35A’s combat range may be shrinking, the costs for F-35 early-production models have been creeping up, straining a program for which affordability is meant to be a hallmark. Range estimates have been cut for all three F-35 versions because of a growing expectation that they will need to “suck a little bit more power out of the engine” to run internal systems, including cooling, said Dave Majumdar, a pilot who is air warfare correspondent for Defense News, a trade publication. He said the “A” model had been affected the most. Any engine-related performance questions could boost efforts by some U.S. lawmakers to revive a competitive engine program formally cancelled last month by the Pentagon as unnecessary and wasteful. “It certainly stirs the pot,” said Winslow Wheeler, an F-35 critic at the private Center for Defense Information, citing what he called “more cost, less performance” of the aircraft. The U.S. House of Representatives’ Armed Services Committee voted 54 to 5 on Wednesday to require the Pentagon to let General Electric Co. and Rolls-Royce Group Plc continue their joint development of an alternate engine for the F-35, as long as it was done at no cost to the government. Eight countries have joined the United States to co-develop the jet — Britain, Italy, Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Denmark and Norway. Competitors for foreign sales include Saab’s Gripen, Dassault’s Rafale, Russia’s MiG-35 and Sukhoi Su-35 as well as the Eurofighter Typhoon made by a consortium of British, German, Italian and Spanish companies. Another competitor is the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet built by Boeing Co., which lists a combat radius of 500-plus nautical miles carrying three 480-gallon external tanks and four 1,000-pound bombs. ---------------- Found the story below through a link, don't go to CNN normally  ---------------- Air Force grounds F-22s over oxygen system concerns. ;D By the CNN Wire Staff May 6, 2011 -- Updated 0051 GMT (0851 HKT) Washington (CNN) -- The U.S. Air Force has grounded its entire F-22 Raptor fleet amidst continuing concern over how the fighter jet provides oxygen to the pilot, according Capt. Jennifer Faerrau, a spokesperson for the Air Force's Air Combat Command. The stand-down order was made Tuesday but is just now becoming public. It's unclear how long the stand down will last. There are about 165 Raptors in the fleet. Since January, the aircraft already had been kept at altitudes under 25,000 feet during an ongoing investigation into a November crash. Flying above that altitude could cause a pilot to black out from lack of oxygen and lose control. The stand-down affects all routine training and other missions, Faerrau said. The Air Force is looking at all the systems on this new-generation fighter jet, but one area of focus is the On-Board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS), according to Ferrau. The order came from Gen. William Fraser, commander of Air Combat Command, which is based at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia. |
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Post by Dushko on May 15, 2011 22:25:23 GMT -5
I went to see the F-22 at an airshow last weekend, then before it was to fly, it was grounded! Damn!
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of the F-22 or 35 had parts made in China. The American businessmen are stupid enough to do that to put a few more $ in their pockets. Traitors.
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Post by TsarSamuil on May 16, 2011 12:52:38 GMT -5
;D Vid, www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfr2PSTGtNwPakistan to return remains of U.S. stealth helicopter. Pakistan is to return to the United States on Tuesday the remains of a stealth helicopter used in a special forces raid to kill al Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, Pakistani television said, quoting army sources. Pakistan agreed to return the tail of the helicopter following a late night meeting on Monday between U.S. Senator John Kerry and Pakistani officials in Islamabad. "Tomorrow the tail of the helicopter will be returned to America," Kerry told journalists. The UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter crashed in bin Laden's compound in the town of Abbottabad during the raid on May 1. U.S. Special Forces blew up the wreckage, but left behind a tail rotor boom, which is believed to have been heavily modified to have a reduced radar signature. The tail boom was taken to a Pakistani military base. Media sources had speculated that Pakistan might hand the wreckage over to China, its closest regional ally, so that it could benefit from U.S. stealth technology. NEW DELHI, May 17 (RIA Novosti) -------------- Rotor? www.defenceaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1850703836editor_Secret_New_Helicopter_used_in_Osama_bin_Laden_Raid.jpgStealth n normal version www.defenceaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mh-x31.jpgStealth www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3185/helicopter-silent-hawk-concept.jpg -------------- Black Hawk Down — China Up? investors.com 05/11/2011 06:30 PM ET Secrets: Good news of bin Laden's death may be followed by bad news of Pakistan giving China a peek at our downed helicopter. Will we be threatened by our own technology? They are something out of the latest Batman flick, the modified Black Hawk helicopters that were used in the raid on Osama bin Laden's Pakistani compound. With a curious hublike housing around the unusually configured rear-rotor, among other things, it was clearly designed to be as quiet and stealthy as possible. When one of the copters clipped a wall in bin Laden's compound, it had to be destroyed, leaving behind a technological gift that not-always-cooperative and now-disgruntled Pakistanis may use to get even with an America that left them out of the loop. ABC News reports that in the days after the raid, the tail section and other pieces of debris — including a mysterious cloth-like covering that the local children found fun to play with — were photographed being hauled away from the crash site by tractor. Pakistan has expressed an interest in keeping and studying the wreckage that we want back, but they do not have the capability to exploit any knowledge gained. The Chinese do, however, and they too have expressed an interest in taking a peek at the wreckage. And as one Pakistani official told ABC, "We might let them take a look." After concluding a trip to Beijing last month, Punjab Chief Minister Muhammad Shahbaz Sharif told Pakistan's local press that China was Pakistan's "best friend." In some Pakistani eyes, sharing recovered stealth technology with their best friends in Beijing would be sweet payback for the unannounced Abbottabad raid. "Because Pakistan gets access to Chinese missile technology and other advanced systems, Islamabad is always looking for ways to give China something in return," says former White House counterterrorism adviser and ABC News consultant Richard Clarke. It would be a significant boost to a China that has a stealth aircraft program of its own and has already benefited from acquired U.S. stealth technology. In 1999 an American stealth F-117 Nighthawk bomber was shot down in Serbia, and the wreckage was reportedly passed along to the Chinese. A little more than a decade later, in January of this year, the Chinese J-20 fighter, a spitting image of our F-22 Raptor, took to the air, threatening to alter the balance of power in the Western Pacific. The J-20 took its second flight on April 17, and a report issued by the Jamestown Foundation, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank, said that based on available information, the Chinese stealth fighter will be "a high-performance stealth aircraft, arguably capable of competing ... with the U.S. F-22A Raptor and superior in most, if not all, cardinal performance parameters against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter." Currently there are no Raptors deployed overseas, and none of the 187 planes we paid $77 billion for has seen combat. The fleet was grounded recently due to oxygen system problems, but some have suggested the F-22 has not flown over places such as Libya because the administration, which has shut down the production line after the final plane is delivered, does not want administration critics to have evidence that the administration was wrong in its decision. Some critics suggest the J-20 is overhyped; that its engines, composite steel material and avionics aren't in the same league as the F-22 Raptor. But the J-20 is a direct challenge to American superiority that will be improved upon over time. And the Chinese will not stop at 187 aircraft as we did with the Raptor. If our Pakistani "friends" do indeed let Beijing take a peek, the stealthy parts of the Black Hawk wreckage will help advance the Chinese stealth program by filling in technology gaps. With friends like these ... . |
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