Serbia n Montenegro.

[Deleted]

Don't be too emotional. It's possible that some radicals are even glad that they lost. They did everything to ruin the sympathies they had amongst "normal" people. First, "Sprem'te se Sprem'te Cetnici". What an idiot told them they should play that on their meetings? Then, all those pathetic threats towards Croatia. As if Serbia hasn't enough problems with Kosovo. But I guess they must care about the refugees who traditionally vote for them (without their votes Vojvodina would be lost).
Then Nikolic's great slogan "Rather a Russian collony than member of the EU". No matter how he meant it, nobody wants to be a "collony".
The radicals didn't lose because of minorities (what some radicals claim now), but because of those who usually don't vote but did it this time because they don't want Serbia to become isolated again. And that was the propaganda in the medias: With Nikolic it will be as it was under Slobo.
Now they can again have a big mouth in opposition, and claim that with them everything would be different. And in several years again the same mistakes, and "Now or never".
Believe me, you have no reason to cry because of them.

[gleb]

I'm having negative emotions not because of Nikolic personally. I don't think that Serbs want Russia to settle it's presence in their country with military. That would remind them of USSR. I wanted Kosovo not to be cut from Serbia. Tadic is too passive and too weak to solve this problem. It's my personal opinion based on interviews I've read and saw on TV. I don't see him as a leader which is needed in the hard times.
What makes me really mad is the position of the official Russia. Gas deal calmed our government which is ruled by Gazprom. If someone will find some articles with Albanian reaction on re-electing Tadic, post it here, please.

[pastir]

medo said:

I watched a TV debate (over the Internet) between Tadic and Nikolic on Serbian national TV and I heard very, very clearly Tadic saying "Serbia shall never recognize independent Kosovo".

That is very nice, but that is the only thing he is willing to do about it. He is saying he won`t aid stripping of Kosovo by EU, but he is in no way willing to oppose it. He criticised Kostunica for not wanting to sign an association agreement with the EU, the same organisation that is openly planning to detach Kosovo from Serbia and protect the Albanian state with a millitary occupation of their own after they replace UNMIK with the EU mission. He is not even willing to cutt off diplomatic relations with countries that recognise Kosovo because it would "lead to isolation of Serbia". With everything he says it is clear a vote for him is a vote for Serbia that values the EU membership pie in the sky first and own territorial integrity second. Tadic getting elected is not a blow for the West, yes he said he will not recognise Kosovo, but that did not the least bit upset his masters in the Brussels and the Washington, because they understand it was needed for him to say it in order to have a chance at getting elected. The West doesn`t need Tadic to help them give Serbian land to Albanians, they just need him not to do anything about it to prevent it. Tadic is like a homeowner claiming he is against a burglar breaking into his house and running away with his TV set, who as a proof of that points out he will not open the door for the burglar himself, although he freely admits he will do nothing once the burglar starts to break in to try to stop him.

jna said:

The radicals didn't lose because of minorities (what some radicals claim now), but because of those who usually don't vote but did it this time because they don't want Serbia to become isolated again.

You`re talking like a Eurocrat now. Considering Nikolic got 48%, a great deal of those who usually don`t vote but did this time voted for Nikolic.

Of course he lost in part due to minorities. I`m sure Tadic polled at way more than 50% among the minorities (other than Gypsies).

[medo]

pastir said:

medo said:

I watched a TV debate (over the Internet) between Tadic and Nikolic on Serbian national TV and I heard very, very clearly Tadic saying "Serbia shall never recognize independent Kosovo".

That is very nice, but that is the only thing he is willing to do about it.

One has to be honest and admit that right now there is no much Serbia can do anyway. Tadic's stance on Kosovo issue got very, very close to position of Nikolic. Even Nikolic didn't call for war, did he?

pastir said:

yes he said he will not recognise Kosovo, but that did not the least bit upset his masters in the Brussels and the Washington, because they understand it was needed for him to say it in order to have a chance at getting elected.

This is serious mistake in thinking -> at the very end it is irrelevant if Brussles or Washignton are upset. What is relevant is if the people of Serbia (at least 50% of it) are upset. Actually it is much more than 50% since Tadic couldn't get more than 10% if he claimed that Serbia shuld give away Kosovo.
The only party that accepts independence of Kosovo (LDP) gets 5% of votes! And the only difference between LDP and Tadic's DS is their stance on Kosovo.


And last but not least, as I wrote before Tadic must not forget what happened to his predecessor - Z. Djidjic! If he speaks one thing and gets votes on his words, but later does the opposite he signs his own death, and in these circumstances maybe even starts civil war in Serbia.

[Deleted]

medo said:

And last but not least, as I wrote before Tadic must not forget what happened to his predecessor - Z. Djidjic! If he speaks one thing and gets votes on his words, but later does the opposite he signs his own death, and in these circumstances maybe even starts civil war in Serbia.

Djindjic was killed by the mafia (Ulemek & Co.), because he began to work against them.
That had nothing to do with his (foreign) politics.

[medo]

gleb said:

What makes me really mad is the position of the official Russia. Gas deal calmed our government which is ruled by Gazprom. If someone will find some articles with Albanian reaction on re-electing Tadic, post it here, please.

I think that you should not be upset about the position of the official Russia on Serbia and Kosovo issue. Current policy of Russia is the only possible. In addition I believe that the position of the official Russia is more than correct and morally acceptable -> Russians cannot be more Serbs than Serbs themselves!

As I wrote a few days ago I believe that Russia did not support any candidate in Serbia, and offers a hand of economic partnership to Serbia. This is the only possible position.


I wrote a couple of posts about some speculations what might be Russian interests in Kosovo issue. I reiterated these speculations here only because I saw you wrote that it was 100% responsibility of the common voters for the future moves of the Serbian government.
I wanted to say that these voters were subject to unprecedented mass-propaganda and frightened with horrible stories about "total isolation from the whole world" and "UN sanctions" if the opposition candidate wins. Together with fear the pro-western forces also used lies and speculations claiming that Russian support is not honest bla... bla.... bla...

My point is -> it is all about propaganda and use of mass-media by the corrupt pro-western forces as a tool for holding the power in their hands. If these forces are not restrained soon Serbia might get into very turbulent period! Maybe even civil war!

[medo]

jna said:

medo said:

And last but not least, as I wrote before Tadic must not forget what happened to his predecessor - Z. Djidjic! If he speaks one thing and gets votes on his words, but later does the opposite he signs his own death, and in these circumstances maybe even starts civil war in Serbia.

Djindjic was killed by the mafia (Ulemek & Co.), because he began to work against them.
That had nothing to do with his (foreign) politics.

"That had nothing to do with his (foreign) politics."?

I didn't say that his assassination had or did not have anything to do with Serbian (foreign) policy. I simply said that a Serbian prime minter got killed and implied that this might happen to Tadic too if he disregards his own words before the elections.



But if I have to say my opinion whether the murder of Z. Djindjic has to do anything with politics then I shall say that it certainly does have a lot with politics!

If the assassination didn't have anything to do with politics why had Z. Djindjic then begged Western governments and Chief Prosecutor of the ICTY Carla del Ponte that they reduce the pressure they had been constantly making on him about new arrestment and extradition requests because he had been threatened with death, only a couple of months before he got killed?

If the assassination didn't have anything to do with politics then why does Z. Djindjic's own party (DS) accuse anti-western and pro-Milosevic and pro-Radical forces for his murder? They claim that S. Milosevic and V. Seselj are behind his assassination!

Why he got killed after he drastically changed his policy on Kosovo?

I think that the West is behind his murder since he bacme a real pain in the ass since he got very firm on Kosovo issue but at the same time didn't have any sins from the past.

Regarding mafia and Z. Djindjic who "began to work against them" this must be a joke! There are many indications and even proofs that he actually worked with mafia.

[Deleted]

medo said:

Regarding mafia and Z. Djindjic who "began to work against them" this must be a joke! There are many indications and even proofs that he actually worked with mafia.

Yes, but later he started to make problems.

[medo]

jna said:

medo said:

Regarding mafia and Z. Djindjic who "began to work against them" this must be a joke! There are many indications and even proofs that he actually worked with mafia.

Yes, but later he started to make problems.

This is not the answer to the (rhetorical) questions I put in the post.

[Deleted]

medo said:

This is not the answer to the (rhetorical) questions I put in the post.

I know. It wasn't meant to be that.

[Dacko]

There will not be a agreement betweeen EU and Serbia (partnership) because of "political barrier" in balgrade. yes of course

They offered 2 agreements to enhance popularity of tadic. and now? man i go for a sniper...

They want to destroy us. Nothin else.

[CHORNYVOLK]

Serbia coalition close to collapse over EU accord


Ellie Tzortzi
Reuters North American News Service

Feb 05, 2008 12:56 EST

BELGRADE, Feb 5 (Reuters) - Serbia's prime minister on Tuesday denounced an offer to sign an accord with the European Union as a trick to lure it into rubber-stamping an independent Kosovo, piling pressure on his tottering coalition.



The statement by Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica exposed the deep rift with pro-Western President Boris Tadic over Serbia's EU accession drive and could threaten plans to sign a deal that would put Serbia on the road to membership.

Tadic won re-election on Sunday on a pledge of pursuing EU membership no matter what happens with Serbia's breakaway province where the 90-percent Albanian majority is poised to declare independence this month, with the West's backing.

The EU, which on Monday authorised a supervisory mission to Kosovo ahead of its independence declaration, had hoped to sign the accord -- focusing on trade, visa and education issues -- on Feb 7 in the hope of preventing a nationalist backlash.

"The EU's proposal to sign a political agreement with Serbia while at the same time sending a mission to break apart our state is a deception aimed at getting Serbia effectively to sign its agreement to Kosovo independence," Kostunica said.

Tadic's Democratic Party and their technocrat allies G17+ could, mathematically, outvote Kostunica and his allies in government and go on to Brussels for the signing ceremony.

It was not clear, however whether the accord would be valid as such or require parliamentary approval.

Kostunica has rallied the nationalist Radicals, Serbia's strongest single party and collected enough signatures for an urgent parliament session, expected to be a showdown over the country's future direction.

"The parliament orders the government to neither sign the interim political agreement... nor the Stabilisation and Association Agreement," as long as the EU does not redress the reasons for this order, said a draft resolution put forward for the session by Kostunica's Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS).

The DSS and Radicals together have a majority in parliament.


"DEEP CRISIS"

An explanatory annex noted the EU offer "does not express anywhere the EU's readiness to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia."

Kosovo has been ruled by the United Nations since 1999, when NATO forces pushed out Serb troops accused of killing civilians while fighting a brutal counter-insurgency war. Serbia, which sees the province as its heartland, rejects a breakaway.

Infrastructure Minister Velimir Ilic, a Kostunica ally, conceded in an interview "the government is in a deep crisis".

"I fear it might fall this month because of Kosovo and the signing of the accord with the EU," he told Press daily on Tuesday. If Kosovo went ahead and declared independence this month, a general election could be held in May, he added.

Former U.S. ambassador to Serbia William Montgomery warned Kostunica's stance was "not simply rhetoric".

He "seems determined to force the EU to choose between its plans for Kosovo and its relationship with Serbia. "It is hard to see how the impasse can end "any other way than in a breakdown in the ruling coalition," he wrote in a weekly column.

The session has not been scheduled yet, but Tadic's Democrats and his allies have made it clear they will not back down on the EU after months of being pushed by Kostunica into making Kosovo the main issue.

Economy Minister Mladjan Dinkic said "there could not, and would not, be any compromise on Serbia's European future".

In Brussels, the spokeswoman of EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said everything was ready for a Thursday signing.

"We'd like very much to sign," Cristina Gallach said. "We think it's a good offer, and at the same time we understand very well that ... they have to undergo internal discussions."

(Additional reporting by Ljilja Cvekic and David Brunnstrom; Editing by Richard Balmforth

[CHORNYVOLK]

Serbia bars US, British vote monitors By DUSAN STOJANOVIC, Associated Press Writer
Fri Jan 11, 6:29 AM ET



Serbia's electoral commission has barred observers from the United States and Britain from monitoring its presidential election this month.

One member of the commission said the decision late Thursday came because the two nations backed Kosovo's drive for independence from Serbia.

The United States and most EU nations have backed independence for the southern Serbian province, which has been run by the United Nations since 1999, when a NATO air war forced Belgrade to end a crackdown against Kosovo Albanian separatists.

Nationalism and anti-Western sentiment are growing in Serbia as it seeks to keep Kosovo from breaking away.

The Radical party's representative in the electoral commission, Slavoljub Milenkovic, said that the U.S. and British monitors were barred "because their countries want to destroy us and grab Kosovo away from Serbia."

The election will pit the leader of the ultranationalist Serbian Radical party, Tomislav Nikolic, against President Boris Tadic, who leads the pro-Western Democratic Party. Several minor candidates are also running.

The electoral commission said it decided to allow 23 monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe and three from Russia to observe the Jan. 20 vote. Russia backs Serbia in the Kosovo dispute.

The election is considered crucial for Serbia as it stands to choose whether to press on with pro-Western integration or return to the nationalist past, when the country faced international sanctions for fomenting the Balkan wars of the 1990s.

[CHORNYVOLK]

Decision in Serbia
by Nebojsa Malic
Three days from now, citizens of Serbia will head to the polls and cast their ballots for their preferred candidate among the seven. Between the media and the pollsters, there is an expectation that no candidate will get the necessary majority in the first round, and that the second round will be decided between the incumbent, Boris Tadic, and his perennial challenger, Tomislav Nikolic. Tipping the scales in that case would be the voters sympathetic to Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica, currently precariously allied with Tadic but sharing many views with Nikolic, especially concerning Kosovo and the EU.

In fact, this election will be a referendum of sorts on Serbia's future course. Nikolic is openly pro-Russian, even though he does not (as some allege) advocate isolation from the EU. He also firmly believes in keeping the occupied province of Kosovo inside Serbia. Kostunica largely shares these positions, although he remains declaratively in favor of EU membership. Tadic, on the other hand, gives good lip service to Serbia's integrity, but continues to believe that EU membership "has no alternative." He is also handicapped by the Western-fostered perceptions that he is "their man" in Serbia, and that he would acquiesce to a separation of Kosovo.

Contrast this with the upcoming elections in the U.S.: not only are there no clear front-runners yet, the policies they offer are but slight variations on the Imperial theme. With one notable exception, everyone is running for Emperor and promising more of the same, just somehow "better" because the "right people" would be in charge. Come November, Americans will have less of a choice concerning their future than Serbia.

Threadbare Determination

But, isn't Serbia's future whatever the Great Powers decide it would be? Certainly, if one listens to the State Department, now is the right time to forcibly detach Kosovo from Serbia. Across the ocean, Germany is supposedly firmly committed, and Slovenia – whose secession and illegal recognition in 1991 ignited the Yugoslav Wars – is now chairing the EU and favoring an independent "Kosova" as well.

Even so, assuming the Empire and its European allies are actually the ones to decide on Kosovo… why are they waiting for Serbian elections, then?

It is easy for Washington to be resolute, when the EU is expected to foot the bill. Even the best-case scenario envisioned by the Empire sees Kosovo as some sort of European dependency, not an actual state. Not only would there be a major breach of international law against Serbia, but this sort of "solution" would also fail to satisfy the Kosovo Albanians.

Voices of Dissent

American and European officials have repeatedly claimed that separating Kosovo would not set a precedent. The "reality-based community" of some six billion people begs to differ.

Arguments against the madness in Kosovo come from all over. Former U.S. Secretary of State, Lawrence Eagleburger (once a champion of anti-Serb intervention), called the planned carve-up of Serbia "deeply distressing" (Voice of America). A commentator in Czech Business Weekly called EU's Kosovo policy "insane." Charles Tannock, British Conservative MEP, recently questioned the wisdom of antagonizing Russia and creating a precedent with Kosovo. Retired USN Admiral James Lyons warned of a possible "train wreck" with Russia over a "Taliban-like state" of Kosovo. Even the Serbophobic commentator Helle Dale of the Washington Times seems to be having second thoughts now.

Perhaps the most surprising in its honesty was the report by Michael Levitin in the latest edition of Newsweek, titled "Sorry, not interested." At long last, Newsweek's reporter explains that Serbian politicians aren't just playing; Kosovo is serious business:

"With so much at stake, the West must ask itself whether a free (sic) Kosovo is worth further humiliating a volatile, Russia-backed Belgrade in the heart of the Balkans. This is one small, poor Eastern state that the EU may eventually want more than it wants the EU."

That's worth repeating: the EU may want Serbia more than Serbia wants the EU.

Shifting the Balance

The Eurocrats may have thought that signing a Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA) with Serbia would foreclose Belgrade's options to resist a takeover of Kosovo. The signing is scheduled for January 28, in between the first and second round of presidential elections, and is universally assumed to be a boost for the pro-EU Tadic. Except that Prime Minister Kostunica has already said that sending a EU mission to administer Kosovo would be a clear breach of the SAA, turning Brussels' carrot into Belgrade's stick.

On January 18, the Serbian government is supposed to finalize the sale of the state-owned oil corporation, NIS, to the Russian giant Gazprom. Finance minister Mladjan Dinkic – who has lorded over the Serbian economy since October 2000 – opposed the deal, and favored Austrian and Hungarian proposals. Moscow then released FSB documents showing Dinkic and his tycoon friends had embezzled hundreds of millions of dollars from the Serbian treasury. Dinkic had claimed to be hunting for the missing millions that Milosevic's government had allegedly stolen and squirreled away in Cyprus; if the Russian charges are true, Dinkic actually used that money to set up a bank in Moscow, which bankrolled penny-buyout privatization bids by government-connected tycoons.

Dinkic and his G17-Plus party are key allies of President Tadic.

Moments of Decision

The Empire's course is a bit like the Titanic's: it cannot turn on a dime, even if it wished to do so. It is hard to tell whether the arguments raised in recent days against the carve-up of Serbia are indicative of a broader sentiment in the West, or just a few voices in the wilderness that just happened to be published now. That is, if one believes that anything published in the mainstream media in the West (or in Serbia, for that matter), "just happens."

More so than in previous years, Serbian election results will make a real difference, both in that country's future and that of the West. Nine years since a fabricated massacre started NATO on the road to aggression, it is possible that the Empire's Kosovo gambit has finally failed.

www.antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=12225

[Lonevolk]

On January 18, the Serbian government is supposed to finalize the sale of the state-owned oil corporation, NIS, to the Russian giant Gazprom. Finance minister Mladjan Dinkic – who has lorded over the Serbian economy since October 2000 – opposed the deal, and favored Austrian and Hungarian proposals. Moscow then released FSB documents showing Dinkic and his tycoon friends had embezzled hundreds of millions of dollars from the Serbian treasury. Dinkic had claimed to be hunting for the missing millions that Milosevic's government had allegedly stolen and squirreled away in Cyprus; if the Russian charges are true, Dinkic actually used that money to set up a bank in Moscow, which bankrolled penny-buyout privatization bids by government-connected tycoons.

Dinkic is against the sale of the Oil industry claiming that Gazprom's offer is too low which is fine, except for the fact that he wasn't too concerned when he sold the Sartid Steelworks to "US Steel" (a better description would be he gave it to them for free) for a measly $25 Million (or thereabouts).....I hope that piece of shit ends up in jail where he belongs