Polls, Elections, Politics in Russia & Washington's role.

[White Cossack]

vara said:

If he is, what of it? I speak as an Orthodox Christian. Many Jews have ennobled Russia, many others have besmirched it. You go on a case-by-case basis. There are Russians who have been traitors and pigs, as well.

Russia has always been a multi-national and multi-confessional state. I find the implied antsemitism of some posters offensive and contrary to the facts. Do not forget that Lenin was a Russian by nationality (after all, his father was one of the service nobility!)!

To me, heroes of Russia are just that, regardless of their nationality or faith. Need I mention that the last victorious campaign in Chechnya was led by a Muslim Tartar general? One of my dedi served as an officer in the Savage Division in World War I. The troopers were all Muslim Chechens. They were accounted the best Russian unit of the war, and the Germans feared them.

We should hold ourselves to high standards, as our civilisation and culture are superior to those of the decadent West. Our posts should reflect this reality.

Vara

You were asking elsewhere if this is a Nationalist forum. Now I ask you, how can your post be considered the least Nationalist?
Things like multiculturalism is anti-National by definition, but I suppose you didn't express yourself all to well.

[vara]

Are you accusing me of "political correctness", sir? "Multi-confessional and multi-national" are 19th century quotes from Sergei Solovyov, which you would know if you were literate in the topic. In short, my family were always slavyanini, not zapadniki, and to see accusations of Westernism coming garbed in the thinly-disguised rhetoric of the National Boshevik Party is too much.

I find the following:

a. an openly expressed antisemitism, and ridicule of all who do not believe that the Jews are the cause of all Russia's ills (if not all Slavdom).

b. an advocacy of a "pure" Slavicness that has never existed anywhere or at any time.

c. a higher proportion of atheists or pagans than in the general population either in the homeland or in the diaspora.

d. whenever questioned, my interlocutor wraps the banner of "nationalism" around themselves, claiming immunity thereto.

e. a peasant crudeness is tolerated in personal attacks, despite assurances to the contrary from the moderators at the outset.

I find it curious, that I, of Great Russian descent, of pogonshchiki background, an ex-serving officer, and general conservative, am accused of "Westernism" and liberalism. If belonging to this group means that I must attack Jews, express myself in crude peasantish terms, or allow ignorant inanity in the name of "nationalism", I beg to differ.

Do you not realise that behaviour such as I have seen since I joined this forum is one of the reasons that Slavs are written off as ignorant and drunken louts? If holding to the standards that my family taught me is "anti-national", then so be it. I come form the heart of the White Guard Russian movement. I may be many things, but a Westerner is not one of them.

I would like to hear from moderators only, not some of the ignorant trolls and peasants I have seen all too often here.

Vara

[Itchie]

I think I have to agree with Vara here. I've observed there is a tendency on this board (and other similar boards I sometimes read) to deflect blame on some easy target. It's very easy to say "the reason Russia has such and such problem is because of the Jews" but it's a lot harder to accept that in some cases, things really are your own fault and no one else's.

Now I'm definitely not saying there aren't cases when others (Jews, Muslims, Americans, whoever) are causing us a lot of harm, we just have to be careful to not ALWAYS assume that's the case because blindly blaming others for our own problems will not help us in the least, though it make make some feel better.

In my personal life, I've found that I've become much more successful when I began to take responsibility for my failures (I was in my early 20's before I realized this, prior to then I was perfect and every time I failed at anything it was someone else's fault).

[vara]

Thank you!

There is something my paternal grandfather said in my childhood that has always stuck with me. I asked, "Why did we have to leave Russia, dede?" He had a simple answer. "We sinned".

Truly, our behaviour should be modelled after such excellent exemplars as Captain Nicholas Alexander and Madame Sophia Koulumzine. I never heard a vulgarity or crudity from either, and I shall say openly they were the predominant influences on my character. They were decent to the core, and we should emulate them, and not sink to loutish levels.

We have kept the old Imperial standards alive. Have you?

Vara

[anubis]

vara said:

Thank you!

There is something my paternal grandfather said in my childhood that has always stuck with me. I asked, "Why did we have to leave Russia, dede?" He had a simple answer. "We sinned".

Truly, our behaviour should be modelled after such excellent exemplars as Captain Nicholas Alexander and Madame Sophia Koulumzine. I never heard a vulgarity or crudity from either, and I shall say openly they were the predominant influences on my character. They were decent to the core, and we should emulate them, and not sink to loutish levels.

We have kept the old Imperial standards alive. Have you?

Vara

I have to say that the "old Imperial standards" were one of the problems. It was too German at its core just as the ruling class were. If we decide return to a monarchical system it should be under Slavic culture and Slavic blood.

[Яромip]

I would like to hear from moderators only, not some of the ignorant trolls and peasants I have seen all too often here.

While accusing others of all kinds of imaginable foibles, you nonetheless, manage to promote class division with a sprinkle of class-bating.

I am from a peasant lineage, but raised as an intellectual. My great-grandfathers fought in the war, served in partisans and went through commie camps. To hear term "peasant" used in a derogatory manner in 21st century is both surprising and saddening.

[White Cossack]

vara said:

Are you accusing me of "political correctness", sir? "Multi-confessional and multi-national" are 19th century quotes from Sergei Solovyov, which you would know if you were literate in the topic. In short, my family were always slavyanini, not zapadniki, and to see accusations of Westernism coming garbed in the thinly-disguised rhetoric of the National Boshevik Party is too much.

I find the following:

a. an openly expressed antisemitism, and ridicule of all who do not believe that the Jews are the cause of all Russia's ills (if not all Slavdom).

b. an advocacy of a "pure" Slavicness that has never existed anywhere or at any time.

c. a higher proportion of atheists or pagans than in the general population either in the homeland or in the diaspora.

d. whenever questioned, my interlocutor wraps the banner of "nationalism" around themselves, claiming immunity thereto.

e. a peasant crudeness is tolerated in personal attacks, despite assurances to the contrary from the moderators at the outset.

I find it curious, that I, of Great Russian descent, of pogonshchiki background, an ex-serving officer, and general conservative, am accused of "Westernism" and liberalism. If belonging to this group means that I must attack Jews, express myself in crude peasantish terms, or allow ignorant inanity in the name of "nationalism", I beg to differ.

Do you not realise that behaviour such as I have seen since I joined this forum is one of the reasons that Slavs are written off as ignorant and drunken louts? If holding to the standards that my family taught me is "anti-national", then so be it. I come form the heart of the White Guard Russian movement. I may be many things, but a Westerner is not one of them.

I would like to hear from moderators only, not some of the ignorant trolls and peasants I have seen all too often here.

Vara

Well, I am a moderator, if you haven't noticed. And I stand by what I have said before.
For someone advocating Christianism, you should be a tad bit more humble "me thinks". OK, we heard before that you "come form the heart of the White Guard Russian movement"; that "you are of Great Russian Descent" and an "ex-officer". We know by now, as well, that you are literate in all the greatest Russian thinkers, and whatever else you have bragged and we might have missed, for what we apologize immensely. We heard the first time you said it all, but we, peasants, are not going to be licking on your boots at the mere swing of you whip, with all due respect, your Highness.
By the way, no one accused you of anything. You are the one around throwing labels, accusations and offenses to all sides.

[Pravoslav]

vara said:

If he is, what of it? I speak as an Orthodox Christian. Many Jews have ennobled Russia, many others have besmirched it. You go on a case-by-case basis. There are Russians who have been traitors and pigs, as well.

Russia has always been a multi-national and multi-confessional state. I find the implied antsemitism of some posters offensive and contrary to the facts. Do not forget that Lenin was a Russian by nationality (after all, his father was one of the service nobility!)!

Excuse me Vara?

These are what Jews are like, posted by our Slavic brothers (read it):

www.slavija.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1196356654

My cousin came back from a 3 month holiday in Macedonia in October this year and he told me Jewish rabbi's are going around the countryside PAYING Macedonian and Serbian Orthodox Christians to CONVERT TO JUDAISM. Sounds subtle and sincere of them.

[Itchie]

What Serbian Orthodox Christians in Macedonia? There are like 3 Serbs in Macedonia.

[Pravoslav]

There are followers of the Bishop Jovan of Veles and Povardarje. Remember the Serbian Orthodox Church (SOC) set up a parallel hierarchy in Macedonia under bishop Jovan, whom was subsequently imprisoned. Many Macedonians just followed this move and joined him. Just because there is a Macedonian Orthodoc Church (MOC) doesn't mean all Macedonians follow the MOC, there are many who still adhere to the SOC. I think in 2001 the two churches were negotiating a reunion like the Russian church did but failed because the Macedonian government interfered. There are now moves to restart the negotiations between MOc and SOC to make the MOC autonomous part of SOC. I think the Russian Orthodox Church will be mediating.

[pastir]

Russia is clearly a nation state of the Russians, but it is also clearly not only that. It is a country where Russians are the only soverign people accross all of its territory, but it is also a country that grants the non-Russian peoples the right to be soverign in the areas where they live and have lived through the history and to have self-rule in their autonomous regions and most importantly of all allows them to remain non-Russian (Russkii). (It is a different matter that the borders of those autonomous regions should be corrected to correspond with demographics on the ground instead of mantaining the illogical delination from the communist de-russification era.)

And I think that is the biggest strenght of Russia. To do any differently would be wrong and illogical. To go around assuring the other peoples (a better term than the western "ethnic minority" - just about anybody can be an ethnic minority, even the Old Belivers qualify) that every citizen is actually Russian and equaly so, like it is done in the West would be a fakery. To try to assimilate them would make a mockery of the Russian nation itself since a non-artificial nation is ultimatley based on blood. And to simply lord over them would make the Russian Federation into an Empire not a Nation State.

[rovchanin]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9G92WKoB2A

[CHORNYVOLK]

Resigned Europe cautious on Russian poll concerns

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union is treading carefully over its doubts about the fairness of Russia's March 2 election to avoid needlessly antagonizing its large neighbor at a delicate time in their ties, analysts and diplomats say.

Usually swift to chide democratic failings around the world, the 27-member bloc does not want to exacerbate relations with its biggest energy supplier, and believes Moscow would in any case shrug off any criticism about its staging of the poll.

"There is a sense that whatever we say it will not make any difference," said Katinka Barysch of the London-based Centre for European Reform (CER) think tank.

"We need to have a functioning relationship with the leadership, old or new... We don't want to antagonize them too much."

The election arm of the Vienna-based Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) said on Wednesday it would refuse to monitor the vote, in which President Vladimir Putin's chosen successor Dmitry Medvedev is streets ahead of rivals, unless Moscow eased restrictions on its observers.

That came at the end of a week in which Medvedev -- the beneficiary of blanket coverage from state media -- refused to hold television debates with rivals and former prime minister and Kremlin critic Mikhail Kasyanov was barred from running.

Europe's leaders have been silent over the election, while a lone EU statement issued from Vienna on Thursday urged Russia to remove what it called "significant restrictions" on the monitors in the closest the bloc has come to overt criticism of Moscow.

That will not cut much ice with the Kremlin, with Putin on Wednesday putting Russia's state security service on guard against "attempts to interfere in our domestic affairs".

"You could say the silence is deafening," said a senior EU diplomat of Europe's reaction. He noted also that Slovenia -- the state currently presiding over EU business -- had its work cut out over Kosovo's expected secession from Serbia.

Putin, popular for restoring some form of order after the turbulence of the immediate post-Soviet years, has said he plans to retain influence in Russia after stepping down in line with a constitution forbidding three consecutive terms.

DEAF EARS

The call by the EU and Washington for an investigation into reports of irregularities in the December parliamentary election fell largely on deaf ears in Russia, where the fruits of an oil boom have nurtured widespread political apathy.

Added to that is recognition in Europe that it needs Russian cooperation not just to keep the oil and gas flowing, but also on a range of vital security interests.

Diplomats came back from a Berlin meeting of major powers last week struck by Moscow's support for the outline of albeit modest sanctions on Iran over fears it is pursuing an atom bomb, a goal Tehran denies.

Russia last month agreed to lift a ban on Polish meat imports which had blocked work on a new EU-Russia partnership pact, and some see signs of easing in a longstanding "frozen conflict" over territory involving Russia and ex-Soviet Moldova.

"People want to hold on to any good elements in the relationship at the moment," said the senior diplomat.

CONDESCENDING

EU officials portray the nascent common foreign policy of the bloc as one based on values rather than interests, but Barysch said Brussels now realized that approach did not work with the self-assertive Russia of Putin and his allies.

"They thought all the talk about values was condescending," she said, adding that the Kremlin felt more comfortable with a relationship based on mutual interest.

That is not good enough for some EU capitals.

Yet while the ex-communist eastern states, Nordic countries and Britain will seek tough language, they may face resistance from western continental partners such as Germany and France -- whose leader Nicolas Sarkozy broke ranks after the December election by calling through congratulations to Putin.

"The usual divisions will no doubt surface," shrugged one EU diplomat in resignation.

[White Cossack]

Vladimir Putin's chosen successor, Dmitry Medvedev, is set to win Russia's presidential election by a wide margin, exit polls indicate.
The state-owned pollster VTsIOM showed Mr Medvedev with 69.6% of the vote.

And early results, with 15% of votes counted, put him on 64.5%. His nearest rival was Communist leader Gennady Zyuganov, on nearly 20%.

Mr Medvedev, a first deputy PM, was the clear favourite from the start and enjoyed generous television coverage.

His other rivals in the race were nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky and little-known outsider Andrei Bogdanov.

Mr Putin, who has been in office for eight years, was barred by the constitution from seeking a third term, but has pledged to serve as Mr Medvedev's prime minister.

Turnout was high, at nearly 60%, officials said. But there were reports that many workers were told to vote by their bosses.

Various inducements were also offered to mobilise voters, including cheap food, free cinema tickets or toys, correspondents say.

There has been very little scrutiny of voting by Western election observers, many of whom stayed away.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7274001.stm

[White Cossack]

Russia's presidential election has seen a turnout of nearly 60%, officials say.
First deputy PM Dmitry Medvedev - the Kremlin's chosen candidate - is expected to easily beat his three challengers, correspondents say.

But the Kremlin wanted a good turnout to counter criticism that the vote was not fair.

Various inducements were offered to mobilise voters, including cheap food, free cinema tickets or toys, correspondents say.

There are also reports that many workers were told to vote by their bosses.

The election brings to a close Vladimir Putin's eight years in office.

Observers say the poll's outcome is not in doubt. Mr Medvedev, 42, the Kremlin's preferred candidate, has promised to make Mr Putin his prime minister.

The electoral commission chief, Vladimir Churov, said turnout was higher than in the December parliamentary election.

But the independent Russian election watchdog Golos has condemned what it sees as coercion to ensure a high turnout.

"There can't be a small turnout when people are forced to go to the polls," said Golos deputy director Grigory Melkonyan, quoted by the AFP news agency.

But Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the turnout showed that many people "are choosing to vote for a continuation of the changes" made by Mr Putin.

The BBC's Richard Galpin in Vladivostok, in the Far East, says there was barely any campaigning by any of the candidates and little excitement amongst the electorate.

Medvedev media blitz

Mr Putin, hugely popular because of Russia's economic boom, was barred by the constitution from seeking a third term.

In the run-up to the vote Russia's main television channels gave generous coverage to Mr Medvedev, who refused to debate with his rivals.

The other candidates are: Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov, nationalist Liberal Democrat Vladimir Zhirinovsky and Democratic Party candidate Andrei Bogdanov.

More than 109 million Russians were registered to vote in the elections.

Voting closes in the western enclave of Kaliningrad at 1800 GMT on Sunday.

Pressure to vote

Mr Medvedev voted in Moscow, saying "spring has arrived - although it is raining, a new season has come".

Before his rise to power in the Kremlin he trained as a lawyer in St Petersburg, where he also worked alongside Vladimir Putin. But unlike Mr Putin, he has no background in the security services.

There has been very little scrutiny of voting by Western election observers, many of whom stayed away.

Civil servants were ordered by their managers to vote, and there are reports that police and teachers were under similar pressure, our correspondent in Vladivostok says.

A prominent critic of the Kremlin, former chess champion Garry Kasparov, told the BBC that support for Mr Putin and his allies was not self-evident.

"Mr Putin never stood for free and fair elections and when you talk about his big numbers they are obviously inflated by the pro-Kremlin polling organisations", he said.

Western criticism

The main European election monitoring body - the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) - decided not to send a delegation.

It said the Russian authorities were planning to impose unacceptable restrictions on its work. The OSCE complained about Russian limits on the number of observers and on the duration of their stay.

In a sign of continuing unrest in the Caucasus, two bomb explosions targeted a police convoy on Sunday in the Russian republic of Dagestan.

Several people were reported injured in the attack in Khasavyurt, near the border with Chechnya.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7273130.stm